T Nation

Josh Bryant vs Mike Tuscherer Training

Hi all, trying to decide between these two guys for online training. I’ve heard great things about both, and the price ranges are similar.
Does anyone have any thoughts/ experience with them?
I have a herniated l5-s1. 19, weigh 195, bench 230 and front squat 275.
Thanks!

At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

I would email both of them and ask if they have experience training someone with injuries similar to yours and how they catered to the trainee and what kind of results were made ,etc.

Hard to say that you would go wrong with either of them

I have worked with Josh but not Mike so I can only comment about Josh, but he was the most helpful and encouraging a coach could possibly be. His program was something I was not used to but all of the lifts had a purpose and helped me greatly in increasing my overall total as well as general strength and size. He is a very nice guy and obviously knows what he is talking about with his programming. Sorry I cant say anything about Mike but Josh Bryant is definitely worth hiring as a coach.

I worked with Mike for 8 weeks and saw 100lbs added to my total. After your first test day you’ll send Mike indivdual video’s of your maxes and he will do a video analysis of them (force curve analysis). From there he will build a training cycle built for your weaknesses (force curve shape and weakest bar position). I’ve learned more about PL training over the last 12 weeks than I have in 2 years. If you have the money to spend, you can’t go wrong with Mike.

Could do a hell of a lot worse than just get Josh’s Metroflex book and do one of those routines, esp the ones he wrote for Ben Graves or the Metroflex Signature/4way split, the mike ruggiera program is also great.

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.[/quote]

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.

[quote]daraz wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.[/quote]

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.[/quote]

uh, what? why don’t YOU go look in the training logs section.

[quote]daraz wrote:

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.[/quote]

There are many free resources (like T-Nation) that a beginner can use to educate themselves with.

An expensive coach is not needed to make good gains.

[quote]hastalles wrote:

[quote]daraz wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.[/quote]

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.[/quote]

uh, what? why don’t YOU go look in the training logs section.[/quote]

Yeah I did, scores and scores of amateurs and the occasional good lifter who stops posting after 2 pages, who just so happens to lift with a crew

“-Hey bro, I can get tips from Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux to improve my hockey. Which should I choose? -None dude go read the internet you can do better by yourself! SO BOMB!!” Most ass-backwards advice ever

[quote]daraz wrote:

[quote]hastalles wrote:

[quote]daraz wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.[/quote]

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.[/quote]

uh, what? why don’t YOU go look in the training logs section.[/quote]

Yeah I did, scores and scores of amateurs and the occasional good lifter who stops posting after 2 pages, who just so happens to lift with a crew

“-Hey bro, I can get tips from Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux to improve my hockey. Which should I choose? -None dude go read the internet you can do better by yourself! SO BOMB!!” Most ass-backwards advice ever[/quote]

I think the point is that using your analogy, if some kid picked up hockey a year or two ago, it doesn’t really matter what Gretzky tells them because they are at such a basic level. They may as well go play hockey and improve on their own for ten years before someone like Gretz can give them relevant pointers.

I appreciate that for someone of my level just following a basic program should work out great. BUT being injured makes a lot of programs very difficult to follow. I have made great gains over the last 3 or 4 months, but I have spun my wheels at other times while recovering or just from following crappy programming. I am confident that continuing to train on my own I will hit a 315 front squat and a 250-275 bench this spring, as I put 75 pounds on my front squat in the last 10 weeks, largely through focusing on speed.

Still, I could progress EVEN faster using a coach. It took me months to recognize my biggest weakness was speed. A lot of people don’t think much of the DE method, but for me using Anderson front squats with light bands and 60-70% it made me much stronger. I could have figured this out MUCH sooner with a coach.

Also, I know from my athletic career that while you can teach yourself a lot of things, a good coach makes you progress much faster. Since I have the money, I think this is a good investment. I would like to hit a 405 front squat and minimum 315 bench and 220 body weight by next fall. This will happen faster with a coach than without one.

I am leaning towards mike right now. He has more experience with injuries, and I like how scientific his aproach is, particularly with regards to recovery etc. They are both great coaches though, and have been very helpful so far.

Did my first day of GVT today. Never trained this light before. Really boring, but whatever, having an arms day will be fun for suns out guns out this spring. The slow eccentrics hopefully will build connective tissue strength, and this is definitely going to take a lot of stress off my body and hopefully get me close to 100%.

I’ll let you all know when I make my decision and I’ll keep a log so you can see what the programming ends up looking like.

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

Also, I know from my athletic career that while you can teach yourself a lot of things, a good coach makes you progress much faster. Since I have the money, I think this is a good investment.[/quote]

If money is no problem for you then go for it.

Good luck!

Don’t be so stupid as to say a self taught person makes lousy progress. I am self taught and in under 3 years of training I have gone from a 95lb squat to close to 700, bench from 70lb to 455lb and deadlift from 185lb to close to 600. If you take the time to learn for yourself you can achieve MORE… Assuming you are smart, do adequate research and really take the time to evaluate.

I bet you that what I have learned from training myself is more than any coach will EVER know about me and be able to guide me… The same can go for you. I bet I would make worse progress if I hired a coach. The only reason self taught people don’t make progresss (people like you) is because they are too stupid. Coaches have no secrets… They are usually just smart about training (though plenty of coaches are idiots who have no idea).

Anyways… Moving to the OP’s question… I have never trained with either but I personally think that Mike Tuscherer’s methods are so outstandingly calculated and he is an extremely smart and logical person that I would hire him. Given that he is one of the top raw lifters in the world also gives him some support.

[quote]arramzy wrote:
Don’t be so stupid as to say a self taught person makes lousy progress. I am self taught and in under 3 years of training I have gone from a 95lb squat to close to 700, bench from 70lb to 455lb and deadlift from 185lb to close to 600. If you take the time to learn for yourself you can achieve MORE… Assuming you are smart, do adequate research and really take the time to evaluate. I bet you that what I have learned from training myself is more than any coach will EVER know about me and be able to guide me… The same can go for you. I bet I would make worse progress if I hired a coach. The only reason self taught people don’t make progresss (people like you) is because they are too stupid. Coaches have no secrets… They are usually just smart about training (though plenty of coaches are idiots who have no idea).
[/quote]
x2 minus rage

[quote]daraz wrote:

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

[quote]BigGreen wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:
At your level I would say just get healthy and do basic strength building for a while, then think about spending big money on getting training of any sort.[/quote]

The disc injury happened in 2010. I’m mostly fine now, but when I don’t train intelligently it can flare up. I realize I am still pretty weak but Since I have the money to spend and I already train seriously 4-5 days a week, I would rather make the best possible use of my time.[/quote]

The point is that you’ll be spending a huge sum of money to make the kind of gains you will probably make anyway. At your weight and strength levels, there’s no way you’re anywhere near a real plateau. I would think you still have a lot of beginner’s gains to make. That in mind, it’s silly to spend so much money on training.[/quote]

Fuck that, self taught people get nowhere, just go in the training logs section and see for yourself. Hiring a coach is the best thing this guy can do ever.[/quote]

X2

Coaching works, no doubt. Here is something to think about though. Mike and Josh do amazing work, but if you are looking to train around an existing injury, or even train through/eliminate a weakness caused by a previous injury, you may need more consistent monitoring that distance programming just cannot do for the most part.

Before dropping the cash on those guys (who probably are worth it), you may want to ask around your city or close cities to see if there is a good, qualified, reputable strength coach around that can work with you for a while. If you truly have a herniated disc and you are looking to add serious poundage to your spine, which would be impaired if you have a herniation, then you need someone monitoring you through a larger majority of your workouts, and not just your test weeks.

Someone that can correct you the instant you do something that could place your body in a potentially harmful position. Check around.