T Nation

Jordan 2, ISIS/L 1

I’m trying to wrap my head around this whole deal. IS murders a Jordanian pilot, and Jordan immediately answers by executing two IS or AQ prisoners. Was it the right move or will exacerbate the situation?

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
I’m trying to wrap my head around this whole deal. IS murders a Jordanian pilot, and Jordan immediately answers by executing two IS or AQ prisoners. Was it the right move or will exacerbate the situation? [/quote]

It was the right move. The prisoners were already on death row I believe. The rest of the world needs to ante up and drop the hammer on ISIS.

It will be the right move if this moves moderate Muslims to take a stand against ISIS. Remember, the pilot was not a western journalist. He was a devout Muslim. A Sunni Muslim. ISIS are Sunni. If this move doesn’t shore up Muslim support, it’s a win for ISIS.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It will be the right move if this moves moderate Muslims to take a stand against ISIS. Remember, the pilot was not a western journalist. He was a devout Muslim. A Sunni Muslim. ISIS are Sunni. If this move doesn’t shore up Muslim support, it’s a win for ISIS. [/quote]

ISIS is banking on the execution of Sunni Muslims for a “western” cause being enough to turn the Jordanian people to support them. Hopefully it wont work but you never know how things will play out over there.

[quote]TheKraken wrote:
I’m trying to wrap my head around this whole deal. IS murders a Jordanian pilot, and Jordan immediately answers by executing two IS or AQ prisoners. Was it the right move or will exacerbate the situation? [/quote]

I would rather they double down on the war effort. It would be much better if the muslim counties of the region would take the fight to AssIS. They seem pretty lackadaisical in their effort and commitment. There’s still to many people there on the fence or flat support AssIS. Maybe if they execute some Saudis and Egyptians the region might get pissed enough to bring the heat.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It will be the right move if this moves moderate Muslims to take a stand against ISIS.[/quote]

Ding ding ding ding!

Push, where are your gold bars and theater crowd clapping?

The burning of that poor guy in a cage is so fucked up its beyond comprehension but the one good thing I can see coming from it is if it wakes up the moderate Muslims to just how evil the extremists are and motivates them to do something about them, then we will have the coveted silver lining.

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
It will be the right move if this moves moderate Muslims to take a stand against ISIS.[/quote]

Ding ding ding ding!

Push, where are your gold bars and theater crowd clapping?

The burning of that poor guy in a cage is so fucked up its beyond comprehension but the one good thing I can see coming from it is if it wakes up the moderate Muslims to just how evil the extremists are and motivates them to do something about them, then we will have the coveted silver lining.[/quote]

I think you’re being a bit unrealistic if you expect this to change opinions. Surveys in Saudi Arabia show overwhelming support for beheadings and honour killings and cutting off limbs. They do it in the public square. It’s an everyday event. Most the people in Saudi Arabia wouldn’t blink an eye at this and there would be widespread support for them. They want strict sharia law. They’re not against it; it’s widely popular.

And it’s sanctioned according to Islam:

A Jew came (T. was brought) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle said to Kinana, â??Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?â?? he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-Awwam, â??Torture him until you extract what he has,â?? so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head, in revenge for his brother Mahmud.â?? (Ibn Ishaq 515).

And Mo himself:

Muhammad is depicted in a hadith as saying: â??Certainly I decided to order the Muâ??adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.â?? (Bukhari 1.11.626)


What makes you think this would turn opinion against IS?

http://news.yahoo.com/uae-pulled-fight-pilot-capture-report-092352950.html

You would think other muslims would be out raged at the embarrassment extremist bring to their religion, and the fact that their backyard is on fire.

Mohammad is considered a model in Islam of how Muslims should live their lives. A good Muslim is supposed to imitate Mohammad and follow his example in everything. As quoted above, Muhammad ordered an entire community to be burned alive for not attending prayer. So burning people alive for infractions against Islam, even minor ones like missing prayer, is considered a noble thing to do. And as I said, surveys show there is overwhelming support for torture and murder punishments like this in Muslim countries. Especially Saudi Arabia. Even in Western countries surveys show there is a large majority in support of honour killings, decapitations, cutting off limbs etc and the introduction of sharia law in the West. And there are thousands upon thousands of Western born Muslims fighting with IS and other groups in Syria who will come back to the West and launch attacks. Of course, we can’t cancel their citizenship and refuse to allow them back in because that would be “Islamophobic”.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

I think you’re being a bit unrealistic if you expect this to change opinions. [/quote]

Most likely you are right. One can always hope though, right?

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[quote]Aggv wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/uae-pulled-fight-pilot-capture-report-092352950.html

You would think other muslims would be out raged at the embarrassment extremist bring to their religion, and the fact that their backyard is on fire.
[/quote]

Again, the optimist in me would hope they would be a little more than embarrassed.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve read that the immolation was an attempt to pull stable but militarily weak Jordan further into the war thereby causing instability back home in Jordan.[/quote]

Can you share a link?

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve read that the immolation was an attempt to pull stable but militarily weak Jordan further into the war thereby causing instability back home in Jordan.[/quote]

Can you share a link?

[quote]Will207 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve read that the immolation was an attempt to pull stable but militarily weak Jordan further into the war thereby causing instability back home in Jordan.[/quote]

Can you share a link?[/quote]

I’d be interested in reading that as well. Outside of Israel, Jordon’s military is the most professional in the region. It’s intelligence service, the General Intelligence Directorate, is second only to Israel’s, with which it has a close working relationship. The murdered Jordanian pilot was a member of the Kasasbeh clan, which is part of the Bararsheh tribe from southern Jordan. His death has pushed moderate Jordanians to rally behind their government’s efforts to combat ISIL.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Will207 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
I’ve read that the immolation was an attempt to pull stable but militarily weak Jordan further into the war thereby causing instability back home in Jordan.[/quote]

Can you share a link?[/quote]

I read new stories on three or four different sites yesterday and can’t remember where.

Will go looking.
[/quote]

I looked for a while before asking. Then I looked again. No luck.

No worries.

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