Jon Bones Jones

He was going to go to the olympics but they offered him a fight against Hughes as Serras replacement.

[quote]drewh wrote:
He was going to go to the olympics but they offered him a fight against Hughes as Serras replacement.[/quote]

for Canada. He’d get mopped by international competition in a wrestling meet.

[quote]slimjim wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
He was going to go to the olympics but they offered him a fight against Hughes as Serras replacement.[/quote]

for Canada. He’d get mopped by international competition in a wrestling meet.[/quote]

Sad But true.
Canada has some great wrestlers, until they get to international competition.

Ill agree about the BJJ vs Judo VS wrestling argument for a few reasons.
Slimjim raised some really good points.

Wrestling first, then Judo are really more punishing on the body then BJJ-
you can swap the first two, depending on your level of competition.
But as a whole those two take a much bigger toll on the body ( and mind)
not dismissing BJJ but until your elite in BJJ your really rolling with beginners.
you could say that someone who has rolled for 5 years is a vet,
someone who wrestled for 5 years probably has had 4x the time training,mat time
and 4x the number of matches.

Most BJJ school are aimed at starting from the ground up- with non-athletes
or beginners or people who fall into both categories. Judo too for the most part.

Wrestling- is really taught in school. preferably the earlier the better- til you burn out.
Its also hard to find beginner adult classes, clubs etc that would take adults.

JJ is likely the easier of the three to find classes that fit most peoples level of
fitness progress etc, and its allot easier on the body.

to say that anyone can pick up wrestling quickly is like saying that I could pick up striking at the same rate. think about that one. completely different motor skills.
that being said find some classes/clubs and have fun.

as for Jones what makes him different is how he puts it together- he is flashy and will try anything
unorthodox striking, good athletic make up solid greco skills, and the crazy reach that
cycobush mentioned- he has allot going on.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
He is phenomenal and very young. Unfortunately he would still get ragdolled by the top 205 lbers like Shogun, Machida, Rampage, Evans, Thiago Silva and the uncrowned 205 champ Anderson Silva. In another year or 2 he beats them all except Anderson. Although it was an illegal strike he deserves a NC for the Hammil fight not a loss, Hammill was done.[/quote]

Rashad wouldt be able to take him down, i dont think he could avoid getting mauled by jones in the clinch. Its arguable that rashad could handle him on the feet, Jones has an unbelievable reach, 84.5 inches. and he uses it well. To put that in perspective, Lesnars is like 81 and Anderson’s is like 79.5 i believe.

He would probably take Thiago to a UD, Thiago’s just too sloppy to avoid getting thrown around and hes terrible at closing the distance on the feet.

Rampage has the edge in standup but again, because of jones reach and clinch game hes very good at avoiding damage and if anyone thinks rampage could stop those takedowns and deal with the kicks, they are crazy.

I do think machida, shogun and anderson would be too much for the guy right now, but its only a matter of fights before hes up there in the top 5 LHW’s in the world

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

[quote]slimjim wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
He was going to go to the olympics but they offered him a fight against Hughes as Serras replacement.[/quote]

for Canada. He’d get mopped by international competition in a wrestling meet.[/quote]

Sad But true.
Canada has some great wrestlers, until they get to international competition.

Ill agree about the BJJ vs Judo VS wrestling argument for a few reasons.
Slimjim raised some really good points.

Wrestling first, then Judo are really more punishing on the body then BJJ-
you can swap the first two, depending on your level of competition.
But as a whole those two take a much bigger toll on the body ( and mind)
not dismissing BJJ but until your elite in BJJ your really rolling with beginners.
you could say that someone who has rolled for 5 years is a vet,
someone who wrestled for 5 years probably has had 4x the time training,mat time
and 4x the number of matches.

Most BJJ school are aimed at starting from the ground up- with non-athletes
or beginners or people who fall into both categories. Judo too for the most part.

Wrestling- is really taught in school. preferably the earlier the better- til you burn out.
Its also hard to find beginner adult classes, clubs etc that would take adults.

JJ is likely the easier of the three to find classes that fit most peoples level of
fitness progress etc, and its allot easier on the body.

to say that anyone can pick up wrestling quickly is like saying that I could pick up striking at the same rate. think about that one. completely different motor skills.
that being said find some classes/clubs and have fun.

as for Jones what makes him different is how he puts it together- he is flashy and will try anything
unorthodox striking, good athletic make up solid greco skills, and the crazy reach that
cycobush mentioned- he has allot going on.

[/quote]
Good post kmc - It is true that the standup and wrestling and different motor skills…I guess also for me I’ve always had a good/hard punch, and it felt second nature for me to punch and kick…I mean it came REAL fast to pick up on it. For wrestling…I dunno I mean…it’s hard to say…I want to believe you guys cause ya got a lot of experience and have been through it all.

But for the most part why i believe I could really pick up on it is for a couple reasons:

As brutal as the wrestling sessions are, physically and mentally.

I have been through just as much brutality through muay thai training…physically getting kicked, punched, knee’d ALL over the body.
And mentally keep pushing forward through it…and 2nd well the physical conditioing for muay thai is also very intense. Doing rounds of pad work, as hard as you can kicks, knee’s everything…flowing from combination to combination. I mean I would think it’s just as hard.

Secondly you said you learn wrestling in school…I’ve been outta highschool for a few years now but it hasn’t been that long and I’ve been more than active after highschool.
Which brings me to the question how many matches would someone have in their HS career?

I just feel that if someone put the same dedication…willing to put their bodies and minds through it I think they could acheiev something pretty impressive. I just feel like you guys are saying…once your done highschool you can’t be great in wrestling…it just seems that way…it might not be…but that’s what I’ve understood thus far.

You also mentioned burn out physically and mentally…I would reckon that someone not in school, wouldnt be drilled to the point of burn out as well and would back off a bit (you might’ve done that, I’m not sure how they set that up in the states)

To finish off…I mean I’ve trained 9 days a week before…I’ve been through harsh training…where I burnt myself out, but I am smarter about it now. I just don’t see how someone who dedicated 5 years let’s say to wrestling could not be great. That’s all…not even me…I’d say anyone for the most part who had the right thing goin for them.

Your thoughts?

As for Jon Jones…man he’s gonna be a star. I think he would give even the very top guys a run for his money. I can’t wait to see him and Anderson go at it.

Just his reach, height, explosiveness…the guy’s got it all.
I mean a lot of guys are going to be aat a disadvantage I think, damn guy is a freak! built like a HW!

What are the shorter 205’ers gonna do? Someone’s who’s 5’10 or so…gotta have some damn good boxing and wrestling skills. Thoughts on this?

I think you’re going to be very sad when he loses, beating Matt Hamill who isn’t even a top 20 LHW shows nothing. Now people like you are saying he can beat anyone? Don’t get me wrong he has HUGE upside but lets give him some years to refine his “unorthodox” striking before we even consider a fight with a top 10 LHW, let alone the pound for pound best fighter in the sport.

Oh and it’ll be intersting to see where Mousasi and Jones end up in the future, who’ll end up better. Gegard is so complete but Jones has the intangibles.

[quote]drewh wrote:
I think you’re going to be very sad when he loses, beating Matt Hamill who isn’t even a top 20 LHW shows nothing. Now people like you are saying he can beat anyone? Don’t get me wrong he has HUGE upside but lets give him some years to refine his “unorthodox” striking before we even consider a fight with a top 10 LHW, let alone the pound for pound best fighter in the sport.[/quote]

Considering that he is only 22yrs old…him losing will not be that “sad.” It will help a young guy with his upside become even more dangerous. Granted that his heart and mind are in the right places.

Also,turn your hate-filter off(you’ve been ragging on Jones since the finale)and re-read what rasturai stated. Nowhere did he say that Jones could beat anyone. I believe that he would not be a pushover for anyone in LHW…even Silva. But I will say that his youthfulness is a double-edged sword.

haha no no I don’t think he’ll beat anyone…I think he’s better than top 20 LHW though without a doubt. He just needs his chance to prove it, and I am very interested who his next fight will be with. He has demolished opponents, I mean I’ve yet to see him in trouble. With his reach, height etc. listen he’s only 22 years old, give him some time he’s going to be the next 205lb champion. The guy just has it. knows his transitions, and is very unpredictable for a lot of opponents.

The day where him and moussasi…anderson silva, etc fight. that will be the day.

lol also I won’t be too sad if he loses…esp. to someone shorter…being 5’9 myself…I got a shitload of power in my legs and hands, and go for the KO. Him losing makes me feel better about fighting overall.

Now that I’m cut back muay thai, and going boxing…it’s going to be quite interesting fighting all the tall guys in my weight class. Anything 6’2 doesn’t bug/phase me at all…anything over 6’2 I haven’t dealt with too much. I fought a guy 6’5 in muay thai once…the first round he was up on points and broke the cartlidge in my nose from his reach (jabs and rights). 2nd round I figured the distance (shoulda figured it earlier than that, but it was a new experience with someone 6’5) and when he threw, I’d close the distance and get hooks in which left him for standing 8 counts. He was a bit too slow to do something quick after the punch (like throw a knee on me coming in) or not clever enough in the ring to feint a jab or something then throw something else…I think he was a bit too cocky cause of my shorter stature.

But for me my build works for me quite well in boxing…I have a Mike Tyson like build…and style…I don’t arm punch at all, and give everything from the feet up to the hips/torso and shoulders. Should be fun to box and see if I can pull off some sick KO’s haha. I am a Tyson fan as you can tell.

Anyways all that was completely irrelevant and off topic :slight_smile:

Oh just saw your post Big_Boss. I think Jones is the kinda character that if he loses, that’s all it is…it’s a moment and he would be back in the gym right away with a vengence!

I completely agree Jones would not be a pushover…even for Anderson Silva.

I actually doubt Anderson would maul Jones or anything…Jones would be able to run away if anything with his reach, and Anderson Silva is a counter fighting…I don’t think Jones would be dumb enough to barge in on Anderson esp. with his reach…he’d stick and move, hit and run. If they get clinched together…that’s what I’d really wanna see! Jones vs. Anderson in the clinch game! Imagine Jones doing one of those slams to Silva?!

Or Silva puttin the hurt on Jones with his knee,s…

Man I just want them to bloody fight eachothers! lol

Lastly 22 years old. Damn…he’s got 10 strong years in him. Learn new skills…imagine him improving his standup and unorthodox style.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
I think you’re going to be very sad when he loses, beating Matt Hamill who isn’t even a top 20 LHW shows nothing. Now people like you are saying he can beat anyone? Don’t get me wrong he has HUGE upside but lets give him some years to refine his “unorthodox” striking before we even consider a fight with a top 10 LHW, let alone the pound for pound best fighter in the sport.[/quote]

Considering that he is only 22yrs old…him losing will not be that “sad.” It will help a young guy with his upside become even more dangerous. Granted that his heart and mind are in the right places.

Also,turn your hate-filter off(you’ve been ragging on Jones since the finale)and re-read what rasturai stated. Nowhere did he say that Jones could beat anyone. I believe that he would not be a pushover for anyone in LHW…even Silva. But I will say that his youthfulness is a double-edged sword.
[/quote]

Read my post, no hate I just think fans are getting caught up in the hype which happens with every fighter who goes on a run. He’s destroyed Obrien who sucks, Bonnar who lost to Mark Coleman via same way decision and Hamill who I’ve never thought was that great. His striking looks awesome because he was fighting shitty dudes, he tries that on more experienced guys I don’t see it going well. Kind of like Jardine unorthodox gets him KTFO. I really feel they are going to give him a striker next so it should be interesting. I want to see Cane or Franklin against Jones. I think it’s funny how people hype these fighters though “hed be no pushover for Silva” WTF whatever believe what you want.

[quote]drewh wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
I think you’re going to be very sad when he loses, beating Matt Hamill who isn’t even a top 20 LHW shows nothing. Now people like you are saying he can beat anyone? Don’t get me wrong he has HUGE upside but lets give him some years to refine his “unorthodox” striking before we even consider a fight with a top 10 LHW, let alone the pound for pound best fighter in the sport.[/quote]

Considering that he is only 22yrs old…him losing will not be that “sad.” It will help a young guy with his upside become even more dangerous. Granted that his heart and mind are in the right places.

Also,turn your hate-filter off(you’ve been ragging on Jones since the finale)and re-read what rasturai stated. Nowhere did he say that Jones could beat anyone. I believe that he would not be a pushover for anyone in LHW…even Silva. But I will say that his youthfulness is a double-edged sword.
[/quote]

Read my post, no hate I just think fans are getting caught up in the hype which happens with every fighter who goes on a run. He’s destroyed Obrien who sucks, Bonnar who lost to Mark Coleman via same way decision and Hamill who I’ve never thought was that great. His striking looks awesome because he was fighting shitty dudes, he tries that on more experienced guys I don’t see it going well. Kind of like Jardine unorthodox gets him KTFO. I really feel they are going to give him a striker next so it should be interesting. I want to see Cane or Franklin against Jones. I think it’s funny how people hype these fighters though “hed be no pushover for Silva” WTF whatever believe what you want. [/quote]

Umm…ok. I read your post. I didn’t misquote you…like you did rasturai.

Jon Jones isn’t Jardine. Nor is he some “hot” fighter like Houston Alexander when he was on his streak. The “hype” is about ACTUAL potential…his youth…his actual skills. Also,you’d have to be blind(or a hater) to not see that his biggest upside isn’t his “unorthodox” striking. That is not what his opponents have to worry about.

We know he is still in development…but the fact that he is at his level at 22yrs old spells trouble for ALL of LHW division(even Silva). That still means potential…NOT he’s gonna run through everybody including Silva. That is all that is being said…in a nutshell. Besides,it’s only natural to be excited about a fighter like Jones. No big deal.

hands drewh step-ladder to come down off his mini-horse

caught up in hype what do you not understand about that 22 yrs oh my god. What fighters were young and had potential hmmmmm? A decent amount. Learn to read dude I said he had potential im not dissing him just stating people are hyping him too much when he hasn’t done much.

[quote]drewh wrote:
caught up in hype what do you not understand about that 22 yrs oh my god. What fighters were young and had potential hmmmmm? A decent amount. Learn to read dude I said he had potential im not dissing him just stating people are hyping him too much when he hasn’t done much.[/quote]

Just because people don’t share your dry,negative critique doesn’t mean they are over-hyping. A fighter can still be hyped within reason and thought…as shown before you started nagging those who have done so. Hell,you got “he can beat anyone” out of rasturai’s words when he stated no such thing.

Here…if it appeases you,I will say something negative about Jones:
His conditioning sucks. He has shown that he has issues with “blowing his wad” and not having the conditioning to make up for it.

But really…who are you to say someone is hyping a fighter “too much?” When exactly is it ok to “hype” a fighter? Do you hype an up-and-coming fighter based on wins OR his proven ability(i.e. potential)??..and if it’s one or the other…which has more credibility when their career is young. You should really think before you respond to any of that.

Like I pretty much already stated,people are excited about Jon Jones…and rightfully so. Chillax.

It’s called wait for it… … My opinion duh duh duh And I was responding to this post by Ratsurai “As for Jon Jones…man he’s gonna be a star. I think he would give even the very top guys a run for his money. I can’t wait to see him and Anderson go at it.” Last post stop responding to my posts so much because it’s really only you and Dhickey.

[quote]drewh wrote:
It’s called wait for it… … My opinion duh duh duh And I was responding to this post by Ratsurai “As for Jon Jones…man he’s gonna be a star. I think he would give even the very top guys a run for his money. I can’t wait to see him and Anderson go at it.” Last post stop responding to my posts so much because it’s really only you and Dhickey.
[/quote]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Here…if it appeases you,I will say something negative about Jones:
His conditioning sucks. He has shown that he has issues with “blowing his wad” and not having the conditioning to make up for it.[/quote]

Come on, Boss. You know there’s something else the guy should be criticized for.

Because, as we all know, “nobody cuts 25 pounds for a fight.” :wink:

(Sorry to dredge up that clusterfuck of a thread, but it felt relevant in an irrelevant way. I did see the finale last week, definitely disagree with the DQ, and definitely can’t wait to see Jones have more highlight-reel-worthy fights in his future.)

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Here…if it appeases you,I will say something negative about Jones:
His conditioning sucks. He has shown that he has issues with “blowing his wad” and not having the conditioning to make up for it.[/quote]

Come on, Boss. You know there’s something else the guy should be criticized for.

Because, as we all know, “nobody cuts 25 pounds for a fight.” :wink:

(Sorry to dredge up that clusterfuck of a thread, but it felt relevant in an irrelevant way. I did see the finale last week, definitely disagree with the DQ, and definitely can’t wait to see Jones have more highlight-reel-worthy fights in his future.)[/quote]

Oh,man…I didn’t edit myself much in that thread,did I? LOL.

Apparently Jon Jones is also a fan of Twilight…so there. No reason to over-hype him after that.

[quote]drewh wrote:
It’s called wait for it… … My opinion duh duh duh And I was responding to this post by Ratsurai “As for Jon Jones…man he’s gonna be a star. I think he would give even the very top guys a run for his money. I can’t wait to see him and Anderson go at it.” Last post stop responding to my posts so much because it’s really only you and Dhickey.
[/quote]

lol alright everyone relax, I know ya’ll are hungry to state your opinions and win the battle haha but it’s o-k.

I do think Jon Jones is gonna be a star…he has a lack of experience in the UFC look how well he’s doing…he seems to have a good sense of self control and confidence in the octogon.

As you can see he is going to be a new stimulus for the 205’ers because no one pulls that shit he does off in the UFC, so it’s a new game and people are gonna have to adapt, and I’m sure others will try to implement what he’s doing (my opinion).

You don’t want to see Jones and Silva fight? I am pumped for that shit…okay so Jones might lose…but I’m just interested in what he would do in the clinch with his throws and stuff. I mean really what did Rich Franklin who IS considered a top guy do with Anderson…fuck all just took it. Jones has some more tricks up his sleeve and I want to see if he can pull some things off.
It’s just I want to see what he can do against top guys, his reactions, change of gameplans etc etc.
Besides even for the 205’ers its something new because most 205’ers are not 6’4 with 84 inch reach…they gotta adapt to that. That’s all.

Conclusion: I want to see him fight some top guys…rashad, machida (would be very interesting), rampage (if he still fighting?), silva.

preferably the first 3 before silva.

The End.

p.s. - kmc what do you think about my other post about the wrestling if your stil in this thread.