T Nation

Joint Soreness on 5x5

I am 6 weeks into the madcow 5x5 and tendons in my knees and ankles are sore. I really feel it on the first 2 sets when the weight is low and it seems to go away when i increase the load. I am guessing from squatting 3 times a week. Anybody else ever have this problem?

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
I am 6 weeks into the madcow 5x5 and tendons in my knees and ankles are sore. I really feel it on the first 2 sets when the weight is low and it seems to go away when i increase the load. I am guessing from squatting 3 times a week. Anybody else ever have this problem? [/quote]

Amen brother. I have the opposite, it hurts like a bitch on the 1x3. That and my lower back starts bitching too on the 1x8. The day after my calves are mildly sore too.

I have not experienced ankle pain, but foot pain, I guess I’ll have really shredded feet.

How long have you been on the 5x5? Have you made big gains in strength ond or size?

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
How long have you been on the 5x5? Have you made big gains in strength ond or size?[/quote]

The first time I did it I made huge gains and put on about 10 lbs. This time I put on about 10 lbs - but not making as great gains. I slightly injured my back and it hasn’t been the same since.

Deadlifting is a problem. Bench is not so great either - I have hit a limit since I do none of the assistance (and shoulder issues both of which I am addressing now). Squat is up though, and I should increase it by 30 lbs at least. The first time you do the program you should have phenomenal strength gains.

Oh, and answering your first question I think I am on week 8 (too lazy to look).

How much were you squatting before this program. It could be that you are not used to the volume, but I doubt it because you really only have (1-2)working sets on Monday and Friday. Wednesday was more of a grease the grove day for me.

Do you warm up? I find that I need a few warm up sets to loosen up before I can squat comfortably. Try adding 20 BW squats before you start your sets.

The fact that you ankles hurt makes me think that your knees are coming in and that you are putting the weight on inside of your foot or that you are leaning forward squatting off your toes.

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
How long have you been on the 5x5? Have you made big gains in strength ond or size?[/quote]

I did this program for 9 weeks back in the winter and put on 15lb and added 40lb to my DL(385 to 425) 35lb to my squat(315 to 350) and 20lb to my bench(225 - 245). It was by far the most effective program that I have run to date. However, I still have the benefit of beginner gains so take it for what its worth. I would have done it for longer, but I was starting burn out.

That is a pity, tendons and joints take a lot longer to develop than muscles, you are going to have to target them with

nutrition
supplements like chondroiten
essential oils like Flameout
stretching and other work to help get them right

and make sure your technique is good and not stuffing you

you might need to change routines from madcow to something else specifically to strengthen joints without overtraining them

also there is nothing to say you cannot insert 2 days of rest into madcow… workouts on monday, thurs, sunday, thurs ie an extra day. sure it is not as efficient but maybe that is the best you can do

alternatively westside approach might be better giving you more time to recover

OR you might be going too heavy on the weds that is for recovery, you know

and one more thing that helped me a lot (had a bad knee for ages) is EMU oil. the oil from an Emu (a big Australian bird). a girl recommended it to me decades back and I tried it, and it actually really helped, you rub it on the knee.

Australian animals have whacky body oils. after a few applications my knee hurt no more, also, I used it on my shoulder which I’ve dislocated/broken many, many times. wish I had some here in the UK.

I took 10-11g of FO last night and it really helps (as in I’m not in pain right now lol).

[quote]Pemdas wrote:
How much were you squatting before this program. It could be that you are not used to the volume, but I doubt it because you really only have (1-2)working sets on Monday and Friday. Wednesday was more of a grease the grove day for me.

Do you warm up? I find that I need a few warm up sets to loosen up before I can squat comfortably. Try adding 20 BW squats before you start your sets.

The fact that you ankles hurt makes me think that your knees are coming in and that you are putting the weight on inside of your foot or that you are leaning forward squatting off your toes. [/quote]

My old program had squats twice a week a 4x3-5 rep day and a 3x10-12 day so i don’t think it is volume. I will have to watch about my knees comming in though because i think i may do that. Hopefully i can fix it with the form adjustments.

[quote]Pemdas wrote:
jakshafter wrote:
How long have you been on the 5x5? Have you made big gains in strength ond or size?

I did this program for 9 weeks back in the winter and put on 15lb and added 40lb to my DL(385 to 425) 35lb to my squat(315 to 350) and 20lb to my bench(225 - 245). It was by far the most effective program that I have run to date. However, I still have the benefit of beginner gains so take it for what its worth. I would have done it for longer, but I was starting burn out. [/quote]

I am really digging the 5x5 so far in 6 weeks i have gained 4 or 5 lbs. Added about 7% to my lifts.

I have a pic post in the Physique and Performance Photos forum documenting my progress. Although it is not 6 weeks worth of progress anymore.

[quote]themonthofjun wrote:
I took 10-11g of FO last night and it really helps (as in I’m not in pain right now lol).[/quote]

Fish oil is a big help. I didn’t take it for a week when i was in New Mexico and my shoulders felt like crap. Now after 3 days they are good again. I take 3 or 4 caps every time i eat or drink a shake. I get about 20 grams a day.

[quote]jakshafter wrote:
themonthofjun wrote:
I took 10-11g of FO last night and it really helps (as in I’m not in pain right now lol).

Fish oil is a big help. I didn’t take it for a week when i was in New Mexico and my shoulders felt like crap. Now after 3 days they are good again. I take 3 or 4 caps every time i eat or drink a shake. I get about 20 grams a day.[/quote]

Fish oil is the best sup. EVER!!! Especially since I don’t like seafood. I started taking it about 2 months ago and every part of my body feels better. My shoulders almost never hurt and my elbow tendinitis doesn’t flare up as much. My knees never really bother me, but they still feel better. I also had really dry skin, which 1000x better now. This stuff is a borderline miracle.

fish oil is the number one supplement there is. you can get all your protein from food and vitamins too, but not likely nor easy to get all your oils.