T Nation

Joint Pain and Recovery

I’m 38 and when I really push myself now at a high intensity my poor old elbows and knees just scream,and it take much longer to recover from workouts.how is every one else dealing with the same problems .if you dont push to the edge the gains wont come and if you push too hard it send you right into overtraing.

Check out this site.

http://zhealth.net/home.php

The dvd is $45 and is worth its weight in gold.

I have the same problem. In the last year I’ve nursed problems with my bicep tendons, wrists, shoulders and knees. So far the thing that seems to help the most is to superset every movement with its opposite (bench press with rowing, etc.)

Come on guys:

  1. Glucosamine
  2. MSM
  3. Fish Oil
  4. Boswellia

If you are not taking all (or most) of these then you are doing yourselves a disservice!

Maybe your training needs to be reviewed, too. By the way, Zeb’s list is right on…I think Fish Oil Caps are like the great secret of modern “Masters” training. My dog, Lexie, has also overcome her bad hip on a vet grade Chond.

A lot of guys younger than me (I’m 47), came up with lots of leg extensions and leg presses and their knees took a terrible sheering force that didn’t “look” bad vis-a-vis squats, but turned out to be awful long term. So, the first question…when it comes to knees…that I usually ask is “Posterior Chain?”

Maybe deadlift and deadlift variations might be a better thing for you to consider rather than what you are now doing. I know you didn’t post anything, but the idea is worthy of consideration. Next, you might have to go to my secret…make that top secret…masters training idea for legs (Deadlifts a couple days a week and hill sprints/runs ((maybe for only two or three reps)) twice a week.

As for elbows, a lot of us older guys who added chin up/pullups found that our elbows were killing us. The advice I was told was to ignore it for a while. By God…it worked. Feels fine now. Now, if we were talking about Triceps Kickbacks, again maybe the forces…the cutting forces…would be too much.

I always like to look at exercise selection first on joint pain. Now, if you were in a car accident…I can see that would be different. But, over time, exercise selection can be as big a factor as anything else.

I think there is a hit list of bad ideas for masters:

  1. Bench Presses
  2. Leg Extension and Leg Presses (Hell, even Clarence Bass doesn’t seem to do them any more!)
  3. Isolation or Machine exercises for the arms…too easy to do too much.
  4. Anything that involves a Swis Ball, a machine and spandex.

Just some random thoughts…

What Zeb said.

Also don’t wait to go see an ART practitioner till things are far gone.

Oh and for many people (including me) patellar tracking issues can be a problem and tight iliotibial bands can wreak much havok. A foam roller, ART or the stick can work wonders.

I might as well give what program I am using now it is a cross training for sure it kind of a mix of a few . one day squat bench, dead lift, 5x5 to a 5 x 5,4,3,2,2 light /heavy every other week for dead lifts. abs, then some speed bag ,ride the bike for a few. -----day two off ----day three heavy bag, speed bag, (bupees, clean and press. jumprope tri set ) abs ---- day four off ----day five 10x3 @ 52% bench and squat, with or without chains 3x10, rows,close grip bench , curl, step up with weights,calf and abs .punch outs on heavy bag,jump rope.

In addition to fish oil & perhaps Glucosamine / Chondroitin, I think you might benefit from cycling you exercises. e.g. I do BB or EZ tri extension for three weeks followed by three weeks of NG bench then alternate in 3week cycles. Each new cycle uses the previous cycles 2nd weeks weight providing I completed week three’s target reps. I use small increases (2.5kg or even 1.25kg or less) per week. This seemed to help me, even using this approach I occasionally experience joint soreness- so I pick a couple of different exercises to cycle.

Mix it up a bit!

Dax

Here’s my list for my 43 year old body:

  1. Glucosamine Chondrotin MSM blend
  2. 28 Grams of Flax ED
  3. Ibuprofen before chest work outs
  4. Celebrex 200 MG a day, ED for 7
    days when inflammation flares
  5. Once a month deep tissue massage
  6. Once a month Chiro adjustment
  7. Deads once a month, rack pulls
    other weeks.
  8. Knee wraps for squats.

Problem areas:

L and R AC Joints - Cortisone Injects
done in each.
L Elbow

When I have a problem I lower weight and super set.

Good luck…

what do you older guys use for your chests then?

JW:

I still BB bench but take a very narrow grip, but I think my BB bench days are numbered unless I have an ass load of Deca. I am finding DB’s bench is easier on my delts. Dips also kind of take the delts out of it. Big lover of various Pull Overs and Decline BB/DB bench, Pec/Deck.

I recently purchased a “Shoulder Horn”. I have to say it’s one of the best investments I’ve ever made! For those who don’t know, the Shoulder Horn is a device that keeps your arms in the correct biomechanical position to maximally recruit your external rotators. It’s a foam covered metal tube configured to fit around your neck and over your shoulders, and to hold your arms in place as you complete a very quick and simple weight routine with dumbbells. It’s designed to strengthen your external rotators in order to overcome the inballance between the much stronger internal rotators and the generally much weaker external rotators. This inballance has important consequences for shoulder joint strength, stability, and pain.

Well, after doing the Shoulder Horn routine (2 sets of “pec stretches” held for 30 seconds, 2 sets of 15 reps with the Shoulder Horn, 1 set of pec stretches)one time I felt immediate results! My ROM/flexibility increased in both shoulders; I no longer felt the slight, but constant, pain in my left shoulder; in fact, heavy military presses (and bench presses) no longer made my left shoulder hurt! My strength is also better on benches and military presses. This is after ONE use! They suggest 3-4 times a week, so I do it after cardio work on my “off” days–takes about 5-6 minutes.

Any older lifter ( or ANYONE wanting to maintain the integrity of the shoulder joint)should consider the Shoulder Horn a must have piece of equipment. I’m REALLY impressed by the Shoulder Horn–rarely do you feel such an immediate benefit from a piece of equipment.

Crowbar

I have to agree that I think working around pain is putting huge limitations on any gains I should be making. I’m 41 and I’ve been working out for one year now and I have been slowly adding weight to my lifts, but if I compared a before and after pic of myself I can’t see much difference. I’m just recently able to do pressing movements again due to too much shoulder pain that started last August. Now, I’m getting pain in my inner elbows (an area I’ve always called the funny bone area).It’s strange though that the first set of chins it hurts like hell but seems to go numb after that. All this has me wondering how much gains my body will let me make, but for now I have to be happy as long as I keep, however slowly, adding weight to the bar…

Guys… some of you sound like you’re in long term pain.

IF IT HURTS, DON’T DO IT!

You’ve probably got an injury that, slowly, you are making chronic by working through the pain.

See a physio, see SOMEONE but don’t keep on going into the gym until one day an ambulance is needed to get you out again.

I’ve seen ppl grind themselves into the ground by ignoring the symptoms that something was wrong. Mainly pain and tingling/numbness. It’s your bodies, your lives but remember, you only get one of each and most of us would say that we’re training for a better life, not a painful one.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Guys… some of you sound like you’re in long term pain.

IF IT HURTS, DON’T DO IT!

You’ve probably got an injury that, slowly, you are making chronic by working through the pain.

See a physio, see SOMEONE but don’t keep on going into the gym until one day an ambulance is needed to get you out again.

I’ve seen ppl grind themselves into the ground by ignoring the symptoms that something was wrong. Mainly pain and tingling/numbness. It’s your bodies, your lives but remember, you only get one of each and most of us would say that we’re training for a better life, not a painful one. [/quote]

mig wrote;

I was going to pysio for the shoulder and its about 90% better. I do avoid doing 1RM’s in any pressing movement. As for the elbow pain I’m recently getting doing chins, I’ve been trying to work though it but I probably should get some professional advice for that too.
I’m curious as to what other T-Nation members have done for this elbow pain which I’ve read many ppl. suffer from. I wonder if its in the same area as what I’m experiencing. Mine is in the inner elbow (funny bone) area mostly from doing chins.

mig

[quote]crowbar524 wrote:
I recently purchased a “Shoulder Horn”. I have to say it’s one of the best investments I’ve ever made! For those who don’t know, the Shoulder Horn is a device that keeps your arms in the correct biomechanical position to maximally recruit your external rotators. It’s a foam covered metal tube configured to fit around your neck and over your shoulders, and to hold your arms in place as you complete a very quick and simple weight routine with dumbbells. It’s designed to strengthen your external rotators in order to overcome the inballance between the much stronger internal rotators and the generally much weaker external rotators. This inballance has important consequences for shoulder joint strength, stability, and pain.

Well, after doing the Shoulder Horn routine (2 sets of “pec stretches” held for 30 seconds, 2 sets of 15 reps with the Shoulder Horn, 1 set of pec stretches)one time I felt immediate results! My ROM/flexibility increased in both shoulders; I no longer felt the slight, but constant, pain in my left shoulder; in fact, heavy military presses (and bench presses) no longer made my left shoulder hurt! My strength is also better on benches and military presses. This is after ONE use! They suggest 3-4 times a week, so I do it after cardio work on my “off” days–takes about 5-6 minutes.

Any older lifter ( or ANYONE wanting to maintain the integrity of the shoulder joint)should consider the Shoulder Horn a must have piece of equipment. I’m REALLY impressed by the Shoulder Horn–rarely do you feel such an immediate benefit from a piece of equipment.

Crowbar[/quote]

I started a thread here around 8 months ago or so (I think it about then) about the Shoulder Horn. I also mentioned the fact that if you are not “built properly” for Bench pressing you will have shoulder pain eventually. Many people didn’t like those comments…it was a fun thread :slight_smile:

By the way how much do your dumbbells weigh that you use on the Shoulder Horn?

[quote]Over40 wrote:
Here’s my list for my 43 year old body:

  1. Glucosamine Chondrotin MSM blend
  2. 28 Grams of Flax ED
  3. Ibuprofen before chest work outs
  4. Celebrex 200 MG a day, ED for 7
    days when inflammation flares
  5. Once a month deep tissue massage
  6. Once a month Chiro adjustment
  7. Deads once a month, rack pulls
    other weeks.
  8. Knee wraps for squats.

Problem areas:

L and R AC Joints - Cortisone Injects
done in each.
L Elbow

When I have a problem I lower weight and super set.

Good luck…[/quote]

You might think about adding once a month (or at least some form or regular) active release therapy to the chiro an deep tissue massage.

I’d add some fish oil in addition to/instead of the flax (flax has a poor conversion rate).

“3. Ibuprofen before chest work outs
4. Celebrex 200 MG a day, ED for 7
days when inflammation flares
cortisone injections…”

I’d really suggest looking at the appropriateness of long term NSAID use.

Consider fish oil/wobenzyme/active release as a replacement for that nasty trio (ibuprofen/celebrex/cortisone).

yeah that shoulder horn thread was a good read… but I did buy one and still use it.

I have never heard of a shoulder horn before. Could someone suggest where i could purchase one? I think I could benefit from using one immensely.

DJCCleveland

[quote]djccleveland wrote:
I have never heard of a shoulder horn before. Could someone suggest where i could purchase one? I think I could benefit from using one immensely.

DJCCleveland[/quote]

I bought mine on ebay for $47 (plus $8 S&H)