Johnnie Jackson's 1000 lb Deadlift?

[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
then you can’t bench that much, the shirt can. [/quote]

“But judge I didn’t rape her, the shirt did.”

Sigh, again with the bench shirt discussion. Listen noone is claiming that when I put my bench shirt on I get 100 lbs stronger. But it is LEGAL IN COMPETITION, period. If you don’t like it, there are raw feds. But I will say two things

  1. working with a shirt has INCREASED my raw bench. Your technique has to be so spot-on in a shirt that if you are off at all, you wont make the lift. Some people say their raw groove is different from their shirted groove, I dunno, for me, benching in the shirt really taught me to stay tight, above all else and I’ve been hitting PRs in both shirted and raw.

  2. No offense, but if you’ve never used a shirt, I really don’t give a damn what your opinion is. The shirt may allow you to lift more weight, but that does NOT make the lift “easier.” I can squat more than I can deadlift, does that make deadlifting easier? Of course not, it’s just different. The hardest (and I said hardest, not best) lift I have ever done in my life was when I was first learning a shirt and I took 335 (my raw max at the time) for a triple. Without being overly dramatic I was in pain and I felt like my head would explode, but I kept pushing. I couldnt catch my breath for 10 minutes (at least) afterwards. I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.[/quote]

I don’t think anyone was arguing their usage, just questioning (there is a difference).

Personally, I used to used a bench shirt during my Army PF tests for pushups. I used to rock those babies out - maxing within the first minute. When I took off the shirt and tried my pushups raw, I couldn’t do more than 15. Was it the shirt? I dunno. Maybe.

DB

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.

I don’t think anyone was arguing their usage, just questioning (there is a difference).

Personally, I used to used a bench shirt during my Army PF tests for pushups. I used to rock those babies out - maxing within the first minute. When I took off the shirt and tried my pushups raw, I couldn’t do more than 15. Was it the shirt? I dunno. Maybe.

DB[/quote]

How tight was that bench shirt you used for your PT test? Personally I could not even go down far enough for a push up with my bench shirt on.

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Sigh, again with the bench shirt discussion. Listen noone is claiming that when I put my bench shirt on I get 100 lbs stronger. But it is LEGAL IN COMPETITION, period. If you don’t like it, there are raw feds. But I will say two things

  1. working with a shirt has INCREASED my raw bench. Your technique has to be so spot-on in a shirt that if you are off at all, you wont make the lift. Some people say their raw groove is different from their shirted groove, I dunno, for me, benching in the shirt really taught me to stay tight, above all else and I’ve been hitting PRs in both shirted and raw.

  2. No offense, but if you’ve never used a shirt, I really don’t give a damn what your opinion is. The shirt may allow you to lift more weight, but that does NOT make the lift “easier.” I can squat more than I can deadlift, does that make deadlifting easier? Of course not, it’s just different. The hardest (and I said hardest, not best) lift I have ever done in my life was when I was first learning a shirt and I took 335 (my raw max at the time) for a triple. Without being overly dramatic I was in pain and I felt like my head would explode, but I kept pushing. I couldnt catch my breath for 10 minutes (at least) afterwards. I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.[/quote]
    Good post.

[quote]dollarbill44 wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.

I don’t think anyone was arguing their usage, just questioning (there is a difference).

Personally, I used to used a bench shirt during my Army PF tests for pushups. I used to rock those babies out - maxing within the first minute. When I took off the shirt and tried my pushups raw, I couldn’t do more than 15. Was it the shirt? I dunno. Maybe.

DB[/quote]

That’s true, but I think inherent in the question is sort of a challenge to defend the bench shirt. To me, the genie is out of the bottle and it is what it is. I’m not saying equipped lifting is here to stay, who knows, I am excited for the NE Record Breakers raw meet coming up in May, maybe that will start promoting more interest in raw powerlifting. But for now the shirt is where it’s at.

Somebody (i forget their name, sorry) wrote

"It seems that lifters aren’t getting stronger as much as the equipment that gettting better. … what does that say about the sport’s progress? Where does performance stop and mechanical assistance begin?

Again, before PL’ers get all pissed, I’m not knocking the hard work they put in. I just think the sport may have stagnated because some lifters may have become too reliant on gear to move the bar."

What’s really interesting is that I’ve heard some big time powerlifters - ones who use equipment - express a similiar sentiment. I think theres a general feeling that “it’s gotten out of hand.” But to me that’s too indefensible, from a logical standpoint, not even from a powerlifting one. At what point does a lifter get “too much” out of his gear? 200 lbs? 175? 62.893lbs? The people I really laugh at are the IPFers; they tend to come off as a little self-righteous because they are “only” using single-ply gear. What? Come on, if you are getting assistance, you’re getting assistance. I don’t care if you’re only getting 5 lbs out of your shirt, youre not raw.

Incidentally, as long as we’re on the subject, I’m so balck and white about it that I dont think someone lifting with a belt is “raw.” I squat more with a belt than without, that means teh belt is helping me. I dont care that it’s not actually moving the weight, if you dont put a few pounds on your squat or dead or bench or any compound movenment that requires you to brace your abs, then you’re not using your belt correctly.

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
dollarbill44 wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
I can understand the points against bench shirts but I think arguing about them is silly, especially if you’ve never even worked with one.

I don’t think anyone was arguing their usage, just questioning (there is a difference).

Personally, I used to used a bench shirt during my Army PF tests for pushups. I used to rock those babies out - maxing within the first minute. When I took off the shirt and tried my pushups raw, I couldn’t do more than 15. Was it the shirt? I dunno. Maybe.

DB

That’s true, but I think inherent in the question is sort of a challenge to defend the bench shirt. To me, the genie is out of the bottle and it is what it is. I’m not saying equipped lifting is here to stay, who knows, I am excited for the NE Record Breakers raw meet coming up in May, maybe that will start promoting more interest in raw powerlifting. But for now the shirt is where it’s at.

Somebody (i forget their name, sorry) wrote

"It seems that lifters aren’t getting stronger as much as the equipment that gettting better. … what does that say about the sport’s progress? Where does performance stop and mechanical assistance begin?

Again, before PL’ers get all pissed, I’m not knocking the hard work they put in. I just think the sport may have stagnated because some lifters may have become too reliant on gear to move the bar."

What’s really interesting is that I’ve heard some big time powerlifters - ones who use equipment - express a similiar sentiment. I think theres a general feeling that “it’s gotten out of hand.” But to me that’s too indefensible, from a logical standpoint, not even from a powerlifting one. At what point does a lifter get “too much” out of his gear? 200 lbs? 175? 62.893lbs? The people I really laugh at are the IPFers; they tend to come off as a little self-righteous because they are “only” using single-ply gear. What? Come on, if you are getting assistance, you’re getting assistance. I don’t care if you’re only getting 5 lbs out of your shirt, youre not raw.

Incidentally, as long as we’re on the subject, I’m so balck and white about it that I dont think someone lifting with a belt is “raw.” I squat more with a belt than without, that means teh belt is helping me. I dont care that it’s not actually moving the weight, if you dont put a few pounds on your squat or dead or bench or any compound movenment that requires you to brace your abs, then you’re not using your belt correctly.[/quote]

Due to the fact that I guess I was the one who brought it up in this particular thread, I didn’t mean to issue a “challenge to defend the use of a bench shirt.”

I could care less if you use a bench shirt or not. You can lift in a pink speedo for all I care.

I honestly just wanted a powerlifters view of how they look at the bench shirt, and how much more weight it enables you to handle.

I mean, lets say one powerlifter can bench 600 raw, but isn’t as good with a shirt, and can do 700 with a shirt. Then another powerlifter can do 550 raw, but can do 780 with the same shirt. Who do you, as a powerlifter, say has a stronger bench?

I personally lift everything raw, no belts, no shirts, no suits, no straps, no wraps. That might come from my sport-specific background where it just didn’t make sense to train with any assistance-pieces, because I wouldn’t have them on the field to assist me.

I would just feel like I’m “cheating” if something I wear or put on me is adding pounds to my lifts. Powerlifters have a different viewpoint, and I was just looking to see what it is.

As for powerlifting as a sport, I do wish it would take a turn more towards all raw lifts, because I look at that as an honest and true measure of strength, but that’s just me…

What I find amazing is that the bench press record is higher than the deadlift record. I look at my arms…I look at my legs…and I shake my head cos I don’t understand it.

Maybe it is the shirt…

[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
Due to the fact that I guess I was the one who brought it up in this particular thread, I didn’t mean to issue a “challenge to defend the use of a bench shirt.”


I honestly just wanted a powerlifters view of how they look at the bench shirt, and how much more weight it enables you to handle. [/quote]

I can understand that, and maybe “challenge” wasn’t the right word, I guess I was referring to the underlying feeling that makes you say that you feel you would be “cheating” if you lifted equipped. If you would be cheating, does that mean we already are? That’s what I was responding to.

[quote]
I mean, lets say one powerlifter can bench 600 raw, but isn’t as good with a shirt, and can do 700 with a shirt. Then another powerlifter can do 550 raw, but can do 780 with the same shirt. Who do you, as a powerlifter, say has a stronger bench? [/quote]

I would say (and this may sound like hairsplitting to some, but it is just what I imagine I would say) that the 600 raw bencher is stronger but needs to learn how to use a shirt. This is, by the way, a very good question, and one that I think I was referring to when I mentioned the powerlifters I know who have talked about how it’s getting out of hand. The exact quote, if i remember correctly was “[Those guys] arent strong - but they know how to use their shirts.” I wish I could convey the tone he said that in. There’s a kind of admiration/envy for someone who really can handle a shirt that’s as tight as the one’s he was talking about, but at the same time, it’s a backhanded compliment, his first few words were “they’re not strong.” It’s an interesting duality.

[quote]
I personally lift everything raw, no belts, no shirts, no suits, no straps, no wraps. That might come from my sport-specific background where it just didn’t make sense to train with any assistance-pieces, because I wouldn’t have them on the field to assist me. [/quote]

I think that makes a lot of sense for you and I completely understand why you do that.

[quote]
I would just feel like I’m “cheating” if something I wear or put on me is adding pounds to my lifts. Powerlifters have a different viewpoint, and I was just looking to see what it is.

As for powerlifting as a sport, I do wish it would take a turn more towards all raw lifts, because I look at that as an honest and true measure of strength, but that’s just me…[/quote]

Thats the sentiment I was referring to above. What direction the pl will take … who knows? The AAU is raw, the IPF allows single, the WPO allows double and I hear the IPA is considering hydraulic jacks (kidding.)

I think most people want to be strong in and out of their shirt.

[quote]Miserere wrote:
What I find amazing is that the bench press record is higher than the deadlift record. I look at my arms…I look at my legs…and I shake my head cos I don’t understand it.

Maybe it is the shirt…[/quote]

Of course it is, nobody is saying it isnt.

And I thought the thread was about 1000lb DEADLIFTS!!!
:slight_smile:

Dax

[quote]Miserere wrote:
What I find amazing is that the bench press record is higher than the deadlift record. I look at my arms…I look at my legs…and I shake my head cos I don’t understand it.

Maybe it is the shirt…[/quote]

Oh the irony! O well, DLing 1k would be amazing. Can you imagine how large the spinal erectors of whoever does that must be? Insane!