John Meadows... BAM!

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
My point is that I feel it’s safe to assume that the amount of drugs needed to reach the level Meadows has reached is probably not good for you. Eating as well as he does is obviously preferable to pounding Big Macs and milkshakes, but how much damage is he really mitigating? I know this is the BB forum and drugs are par for the course, and I also have absolutely nothing against them, but they’re clearly quite hard on you. Hell, Meadows himself just told the kid he’s arguing with he’ll die by his age if he keeps his usage up.[/quote]

Just shut the fuck up now. You have no idea what the meadows takes. Hes essentially a muscle building genius. He knows exactly what hes doing. Id also imagine he is very aware of his health.

22

Not everyone takes the same amount of drugs. In fact, having stellar genetics for this means 1) you can take much less to achieve the same results, and 2) you have much greater tolerance to side effects than the average man.

Bostin Loyd has claimed to have used 13g of anabolics without counting GH in a single cycle. If this is true, we have a potential Darwin Award winner here.

23

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Seems Meadows just went for the jugular.

What an embarrassing idiot. How does this guy deliver prep/coaching services (or whatever his businesses do) when he can’t even write coherent English?

24

I don’t follow the day to day goings on of social media too closely, but I do believe that Loyd is known for publicizing the pretty staggering amounts of PEDs he’s taken to get where he is developmentally (at a relatively early age I might add). Not to dismiss for a moment the fact (I think we can agree it’s a fact at this point) that anyone competing at a high NPC level, let alone the Pro level, is on a certain amount of chemical assistance, it’s always been discussed that the top guys MIGHT not necessarily be the ones taking the most stuff. If that is indeed the case, I doubt any of us can speak with any degree of certainty what an individual’s protocol truly looks like. Of course, it is a lot easier to be suspicious of someone saying they use less than someone seriously bragging about using more.

All else being equal, I tend to think that the guy taking what I’ve heard refered to as “scary” amounts of the stuff might be tipping the scales a bit against himself in terms of health issues. Of course as I always say, I’m no expert on usage, so my opinion is nothing more than just that.

S

25

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
My point is that I feel it’s safe to assume that the amount of drugs needed to reach the level Meadows has reached is probably not good for you. Eating as well as he does is obviously preferable to pounding Big Macs and milkshakes, but how much damage is he really mitigating? I know this is the BB forum and drugs are par for the course, and I also have absolutely nothing against them, but they’re clearly quite hard on you. Hell, Meadows himself just told the kid he’s arguing with he’ll die by his age if he keeps his usage up.[/quote]

Just shut the fuck up now. You have no idea what the guy takes. Hes essentially a muscle building genius. He knows exactly what hes doing. Id also imagine he is very aware of his health.
[/quote]

They also really do apparently increase anger…

26

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
My point is that I feel it’s safe to assume that the amount of drugs needed to reach the level Meadows has reached is probably not good for you. Eating as well as he does is obviously preferable to pounding Big Macs and milkshakes, but how much damage is he really mitigating? I know this is the BB forum and drugs are par for the course, and I also have absolutely nothing against them, but they’re clearly quite hard on you. Hell, Meadows himself just told the kid he’s arguing with he’ll die by his age if he keeps his usage up.[/quote]

Just shut the fuck up now. You have no idea what the guy takes. Hes essentially a muscle building genius. He knows exactly what hes doing. Id also imagine he is very aware of his health.
[/quote]

They also really do apparently increase anger…[/quote]

Im sorry. Ive just always had zero tolerance for stupid people.

27

Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.

28

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose).

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose). [/quote]

There is PED use, and then there is PED use in that sort of competition. Even without drugs, just being that lean, dehydrated and large isn’t good for you.

I think anyone who does that has to be taking some years off. Maybe I’m wrong, but doing that seems always unhealthy. Though maybe not as bad as smoking (though that doesnâ??t mean you automatically get cancer either).

And for the record, I’m not bashing, Meadows knows more than I ever will about health. It’s why I listen to all the info I can get from him and watch all his videos. But it still just feels a little weird. And all I meant is that talking about health with a smoker would give me the same sort of weird feeling.

30

They are so health concious BECAUSE of the bodybuilding lifestyle and what it entails if you arent. How is this so hard to understand? Plus you get way more out of it being healthy In regards to diet, nutrition, keeping up on bloodwork, etc. What the hell should everyone do? Just throw fuel on the fire?

31

[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
They are so health concious BECAUSE of the bodybuilding lifestyle and what it entails if you arent. How is this so hard to understand? Plus you get way more out of it being healthy In regards to diet, nutrition, keeping up on bloodwork, etc. What the hell should everyone do? Just throw fuel on the fire? [/quote]

You do realize I mentioned exactly this in my post.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose). [/quote]

PED use is still in its relative infancy, so there hasn’t been a ton of studies done on their long term safety (that I’m aware of). But, through anecdotal evidence, context clues and just plain listening to all of the older bb’ers outright state that the drugs ruined their health, we can come to the logical conclusion that, at that level, steroids are bad for you. How many ex bb’ers have died in the last five years from heart and/or kidney problems?

33

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose). [/quote]

There is PED use, and then there is PED use in that sort of competition. Even without drugs, just being that lean, dehydrated and large isn’t good for you.

I think anyone who does that has to be taking some years off. Maybe I’m wrong, but doing that seems always unhealthy. Though maybe not as bad as smoking (though that doesnâ??t mean you automatically get cancer either).

And for the record, I’m not bashing, Meadows knows more than I ever will about health. It’s why I listen to all the info I can get from him and watch all his videos. But it still just feels a little weird. And all I meant is that talking about health with a smoker would give me the same sort of weird feeling.[/quote]

Ya, I see where you’re coming from and I didn’t think you were bashing anyone at all. I just thought the analogy was a bit of a stretch just because there are health benefits to certain compounds where as there isn’t with cigarettes. Certainly the volume / level / duration of use plays a significant factor, without a doubt.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose). [/quote]

PED use is still in its relative infancy, so there hasn’t been a ton of studies done on their long term safety (that I’m aware of). But, through anecdotal evidence, context clues and just plain listening to all of the older bb’ers outright state that the drugs ruined their health, we can come to the logical conclusion that, at that level, steroids are bad for you. How many ex bb’ers have died in the last five years from heart and/or kidney problems? [/quote]

Idk, I mean on one hand, yes, I think anecdotal evidence does suggest PED use can be detrimental to health. However, in a lot of cases I think PEDs become the scapegoat for other issues so I disagree that the logical conclusion is that steroids are bad for you.

A guy has an underlying heart issue, is on roids, and dies. It’s the steroids that get blamed even when proof is anecdote in most case because, you’re right, there aren’t a lot of studies (that I’m aware of). From what I understand there are moral / ethical issues with the study of PEDs. I don’t see it, but that’s what I’ve read.

The fact is TRT is a legitimate use for certain compounds that are already being used recreationally. I’m talking more in general here at this point. If a 30 year old 230lbs guy that eats relativity healthy (not ripped), trains regularly (still has strength goals), and genuinely has their shit together decides to use steroids to get to a more ideal physique for himself (think 10%-11% BF) and finally deadlift 600lbs I don’t see an inherent danger to that. Yes, low levels of BF (3%-4%) seem dangerous logically (Idk if that’s true or not), but isn’t 10% a healthier bf% than 15%-20%? Wouldn’t less BF actually increase (in theory) longevity and equally as important, imo, quality of life?

I just don’t think it’s quite as black and white as some would make it seem where as smoking is pretty black and white.

35

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Wow, at this train wreck. I’ve always found it a little ironic too that there are super health conscious guys who compete at that level. It’s kind of like being a smoker who is all into healthy eating. I’m sure it does them good, and it may even be more worth their while with their other habits, but it’s still weird to talk about healthy living with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth.[/quote]

I’m not so sure the analogy fits. Smoking pretty much causes cancer, we know this, PED use is more of an open case isn’t it? There are legitimate medical uses for various compounds also used as PEDs. That is not the case for cigarettes (except nicotine I suppose). [/quote]

PED use is still in its relative infancy, so there hasn’t been a ton of studies done on their long term safety (that I’m aware of). But, through anecdotal evidence, context clues and just plain listening to all of the older bb’ers outright state that the drugs ruined their health, we can come to the logical conclusion that, at that level, steroids are bad for you. How many ex bb’ers have died in the last five years from heart and/or kidney problems? [/quote]

I dont think snyones denying that. But if you take precautionary measures like eating healthy, daily cardio, routine bloodwork, etc, you may be able to stay more healthy as opposed to someone who doesnt do this. That is all im trying to say.

36

No one is denying that the LIFESTYLE of high level competitors poses certain risks, which responsible users take ample precautionary measures to mitigate. This includes having a proper, healthy diet because staying at that bodyweight itself has potential health risks.

The question is whether PEDs play a significant role in severe afflictions some might suffer, and if so, in what quantities.

Since causation has yet to be proven medically, and we’re going by anecdotal evidence while extrapolating causal links from certain unfortunate individuals, one would have to be a user AND have indepth knowledge of how these PEDs are used by other users through constant interaction to form a proper conclusion.

37

The problem with Loyd, and the reason Meadows has every right to call him out the way he did, is not the simple fact of PED usage, it’s the amounts, combinations, and mismanagement of health as a whole.

Obviously both guys use steroids. Loyd’s usage is well documented, and if we are to take him at his word, he’s presumably used, at times, higher quantities of anabolics (as much as 13g, as previously mentioned), than many guys who are currently competing at the highest levels of bodybuilding. If I were to guess, I would think Meadows has never used a third of what Loyd uses. That’s pretty important to the discussion.

As far as diet goes, what Eatliftsleep mentioned, and a couple others, is important. I don’t think the importance of an awesome diet while using anabolics, especially in higher amounts, can be overstated. It absolutely makes sense that Meadows would be a guy to stress this. I don’t see how this is contradictory in any way.

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Bostin Loyd is a fine example of why simply blaming the use of PEDs, and not how they are used and in what quantities, and without factoring in the lack of intellect of the user leads to an inaccurate conclusion.

This fucktard got an infection from pinning synthol into his arm(see pic) and refused to see a doctor even when it reached a stage where it became fucking necrotic.

YOLO?

39

This guy seems like a real fucking douche.

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[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Yes, low levels of BF (3%-4%) seem dangerous logically (Idk if that’s true or not), but isn’t 10% a healthier bf% than 15%-20%? Wouldn’t less BF actually increase (in theory) longevity and equally as important, imo, quality of life?
[/quote]
Actually, based on longevity studies, people in the 15% range live longer.