T Nation

JOHN B: Best way to manipulate insulin for 2X/day Training

Hey, John. At the seminar and in your recent articles you have made it clear why you favor eating protein/carb meals for the first 3 and protein/fat meals for the last 3 of the day. My question is this: how would your insulin strategy change for someone who trains around 12:00 pm and again in the evening around 6 or so? Try to be as detailed and concise as possible, as I am sure you have encountered this scenario SOMEWHERE along the way in your quest for being “The Recovery Guru”. Seriously, in advance thanks for the info.

Sending this to the top in hopes that John sees it…

Sorry, Racer, I didnt see it the first time. As far as manipulating the diet to accomodate a variety of training schedules, the following could be feasible. First, though, realize that some people will eat more than 6 meals per day. So in that case, you would just do the first 1/2 of the day as p+c and the second 1/2 as p+f. Again, also, some people with varying sensitivities to insulin may need more meals as p+f or more meals as p+c. Personally, I perform better with 5 p+c meals and 3 p+f meals per training day (in stagger-type fashion). With that said here are some options…1) You could try the “stagger” type plan where you eat p+f staggered with p+c. This way your stagger would allow for p+f meals before training and p+c meals after training (this is beneficial for wt training but endurance trainees may need p+c before training). 2) You could follow the 1/2 and 1/2 plan (tapering off carbs come nite time) with the quick addition of the p+c meals immediately after training (surge or your own combo). The insulin surge and carb levels in the blood should normalize by 90-120 minutes so then you can be back to your p+f mode quickly and efficiently. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice, John. If you do not mind, I would like you to critique my current schedule. I only adhere to this schedule for 2 weeks at a time, and then revert back to a “normal” once a day weight training schedule for 4 weeks and then repeat. Be as blunt as you need to be.

0900: Meal 1 (protein and fat)
1100: Meal 2 (protein shake with 15g fat)
1130: Powerdrive
1200: Weight Training Session #1 (while sipping on a mixture of glutamine peptides, MSM, vitamin C, and Choline Coctail II)
1245 Post-Workout Surge or its equivalent
1345 Meal 4 (protein and carbs)
1645 Meal 5 (protein shake with 15g fat)
1800 Weight Training Session 2 (while sipping on aforementioned concoction)
1845 Post-Workout Surge or its equivalent
1945 Meal 7 (protein and carbs…SHOULD THIS BE PROTEIN AND FAT, in your opinion?)
2245 Meal 8 (protein with fat)
MIDDLE OF NIGHT WHEN I WAKE TO URINATE: pre-made protein shake with some fat

Let me know what you think and what I might change to yield better results. Thanks, John.

It looks very good on the surface as long as your goals are to gain mass/muscle. Those are your goals, correct?

Racer, I don’t mean to butt in or anything, and I surely am not the top dog that my man JB is, but I noticed you had a question regarding meal combos following your second training session. You questioned whether or not meal 7, which is currently p+c and follows the postworkout drink, should instead be p+f. I noticed that JB mentioned in his first post that it would take 90-120 minutes for insulin to normalize following your workout. Seeing that your session ends at 17:45, the 18:45 meal would probably be better off being p+c because of the hyperinsulemic environment. The reason I call this to attention is because I had similar concerns as to when p+f meals could be introduced following the Surge or similar drink.

Timbo: You know your input is always welcome here! However, the meal that you suggest I have at 1845 is actually my post-workout shake (Surge or its equivalent). It is the next meal, at 1945 that I am questioning as to whether it should be protein+fat or protein+carbs. What do you think?

Racer, I believe in that instance that Timbo’s arguement still applies. You have an hour between your post workout shake and your protein and fat meal. Your post workout insulin levels could still be elevated come time to ingest all the fat

Racer, my man Thunder hit the nail on the head…I must have been operating on Central Standard Time (assuming you’re on Eastern Standard Time), just playin’. Yes, since the meal is only one hour following your postworkout drink, I would suggest it be protein+carbs because of the hyperinsulemic environment that could last up to two hours following the workout (induced by the drink). The next meal, following the 19:45 meal, could then be protein+fat, should you so desire. Thanks for clearing that up, Thunder.