I need clarification on JMB macro recommendations. I still dont see why a [isocaloric P+C+F] meal is wrong assuming that you were to eat a lean protein, low glycemic carb and an essential unsaturated fat! Not so long ago (MM2K) these types of combinations were encouraged because it was believed the fat would slow digestion and release energy into your system more evenly. Doesnt the quality of the food dictate the outcome greater then its combination? Thanks in advance.
Read Massive Eating. JMB explains all. In future, read the artcile/info first before asking Q’s.
It’s not as if having an isocaloric meal on occasion is going to ruin things.
Let’s say, making numbers out of nowhere, that an isocaloric diet 24/7 would give you results you’d call an 80, and Berardi’s diet would give you results you’d call 100. In other words, you get 20 points better results with Berardi’s diet according to this arbitrary system.
Now, if 3/4 of the time you do as John says and 1/4 of the time you have an isocaloric meal, it seems to me you’d probably get about 3/4 of the improvement you’d get compared to following John’s advice all the time.
In other words, you’d get results you’d call
a 95. So it would not be a terrible loss even if one meal out of four (some days one meal, some days 2 meals) were isocaloric.)
Now, that may not be right, but it’s what I’d guess.
However, I’m sure that that’s an oversimplification. There’s probably more loss from ignoring John’s recommendations at the earliest and latest parts of the day, and the least from having an isocaloric meal in the middle part of the day about the time you’d be making the changeover anyway.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there were no significant disadvantage to having one isocaloric meal at about the changeover point… e.g., if you arise at 8 AM and go to bed at midnight, an isocaloric meal at about 4 PM would probably have little or no effect on results compared to making it a P+C or P+F meal, I would think.
Let’s don’t forget that people were into bodybuilding, bulking and cutting long before Massive Eating. The majority of bodybuilding community, natural and enhanced, certainly does not follow p+c and p+f guidelines. Try it, if it works, accept it, if not, reject it. I tried Massive Eating and the fat gain was the same compared to the same caloric level eaten in p+f+c combination. Therefore, it does not work for me and I could not care less about Massive Eating - however, this is just me, it might be different for somebody else. I think the most important thing about Massive Eating is the caloric level, most people simply eat too little to meet their goals, and not p+f and p+c meals - I consider this to be a fad despite scientific explanation behind all this.
I feel I am going to be flamed for what I just said.
Thanks for everyone that replied. A second opinion on any subject always sheds light. Axy: Hope you dont get flamed, you have a valid opinion. History proves that theories based soley on scientific research dont always prove to be correct in real life. Not to say that JMB’s diet wont work for the vast majority.
Just wondering something: what’s the logic behind placing more emphasis on the early/late meals than the ones in the middle of the day? I understand your reasoning for the above example, but people who say not to eat carbs in the PM, for example…what’s the thinking behind that? To me, taking the day as a single, 24-hour unit, it makes logical sense that no matter how you divide the calories up, so long as you’re taking in the same amount you would end up with the same amount of expenditure, fat storage, etc.
To make this a little clearer: Let's say a person is eating an isocaloric 3000 cals/day. One month he eats it with all the carbs in the AM. The next month he eats it with all the carbs in the PM. And let's also stipulate that this is 500 cals/day above maintenance for this individual. So he gains about 4 pounds the first month, and then another 4 the second, right? (Oversimplified, I know.) Assuming all other parameters (training, etc.) are held the same, it seems to me that the fat/LBM gain would be the same. (And just for the sake of argument, let's further stipulate that this hypothetical person worked out [and thus drank his Surge] in the morning during the first month, and in the afternoon during the second.) What do you think?
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times…a lot of people can get away with doing a LOT of things and still reach their fitness goals. CONGRATUALTIONS!..dammit…
I ain’t one of 'em. I have to track my diet closely, follow by body closely…and yes…do those things that will maximize for me lean body weight gain, fat loss and cardiovascular fitness. I’m glad for all of you who don’t need scales, calipers, or cutting edge nutritional information. Do you think I like having to weigh food, adjust my diet based on weekly body composition measurements and being meticulous about macronutrient ingestion? Hey…I live with it because reaching and maintainng my fitness goals is paramount.
“Testosterone”, it’s contributors, and yes, the people on this Forum (for the most part!)are actually “partners” in a way in helping me reach those goals.
So…despite the smug sentiment of “people always did this or did that…or didn’t do this or didn’t do that” as a slight against new technology, knowledge and information, I hope that “Testosterone” and it’s contributors continue to offer me the latest and best information in a battle, which for me, is almost daily…
Part of the logic as I understand it is that insulin sensitivity is higher in the earlier part of the day, and so that’s a better time to consume the carbs for the day; whereas it’s lower later on and so then is a better time to reduce carbs.
So to me it makes sense that in the middle
of the day, where John would have you either consume P+C or P+F according to preference (providing that the totals for the day come out correct) that an isocaloric meal should fit in pretty well.
Another part of the theory may be that fat storage is less likely when carbs and fats
aren’t taken in at the same time. If so then the isocaloric meal could be a problem if there were a caloric surplus, but I’d think not if there weren’t.
Thanks for the response, Bill. (Damn, that was fast!)