T Nation

JMB lays the smack down on Caffeine

With John Berardi’s comments on caffeine in the new issue of T-mag, do you think it will still be included in the new MD6? I knew previously that it reduced insulin sensitivity in muscle, but by 50%?!

Oh my god you killed Kenny! You bastards!

I have to admit that I am addicted to coffee. It’s hard for me to stop myself from having at least 1 cup a day. However, I never drink coffee with a carb meal, only by itself or with a fat meal. Does anyone know if this is okay? I will stop drinking coffee if I have to. I think my addiction has arisen from the taste of coffee rather than the kick from the caffeine, so I may start drinking decaf. Are there any issues to be reckoned with in regards to the consumption of decaffeinated coffee?

Thanks all. Maybe Joey Z can chime in, he’s a coffee too.

So how much caffeine had this effect? And while I don’t drink coffee, what about Diet Pepsi or Coke? Green tea? This is some potentially disturbing news. Like you coffee drinkers, I have definitely become addicted to diet pop, and I like to mix my green tea with my creatine on the off days.

I just quit caffeine, and ephedrine containing products this week. It has been difficult to get through workouts, but the caffeine thing is only in your head. You guys wondering about pop and coffee should switch to stuff without caffeine as soon as possible. My abs look sharper already. I have been using caffeine/ephedrine in one form or another for over five years (almost daily) so I’m needing a fix pretty hard. Cut out the caffeine, you’ll be glad you did. Supposedly creatine will start working for you again too.

The reason I added my last name was because someone else started posting as Kenny as well. As far as caffeine is concerned I would also like to know what a small amount is. 50 mg? 25 mg? 5 mg? Mabey JMB can chime in and be a little more specific. As far as green tea I know that Twinlab sells a caffeine free green tea supplement.

Damn, now I know why I have poor insulin sensitivity. Damn.

One of the studies I looked at that showed a 30% decrease in insulin sensitivity used 5 mg caffeine per kg which is 340 mg caffeine for a 150 lb person…quite a high dosage. Does anyone know of any studies that show how stimulants such as ephedra effect insulin sensitivity…i’ve searched but have had no luck.

Hoser, I almost cried while reading JMB’s recent article!
Throughout my life, coffee/caffeine has always been there like a
trusted friend… or should I say “crutch!” Last year “FreeEx” tried
to warn me about how caffeine was negatively affecting my hypoglycemia,
and sent me to a few sites to learn more (e.g. http://mercola.com)
now “this”…YIKES!

What sucks is that I have been using caffeine as part of my pre-workout ritual for over two decades - never considered what effect it was having on my post-workout carb ingestion! Guess I'll have to look into other methods of "getting jacked" for my workouts! (Perhaps a future thread in the making?!)

On a positive note: being a fellow coffee lover (not just for the caffeine) I do enjoy a premium decaffe and would be willing to consume "mass quantities" in the name of science in order to find what effect these ''specific quinides" JMB was referring to have on the body.

P.S. For those of you switching to decafee needing something to ward off morning grogginess, try taking a hit of 10 grams of BCAA's upon waking. Among other things BCAA's inhibit the production of the neurotransmitter serotonin and should make you feel more alert. Powerdrive is also helpful!

I’m crying too Joey. Upon re-reading my post, I notice that I typed “maybe Joey Z can chime in, he’s a coffee too”. I meant to say you are a coffee addict. LOL. I might have to try the BCAA thing. I have to admit, a few nights this week, I had a decaf coffee before my workout and it wasn’t all that bad. I just really love the taste of a premium-brewed coffee, so maybe it’s in my head. Perhaps we should start a coffee-addicts support group? LOL.

On a side note, does anyone know if flavored coffee contains any extra calories? I’m not talking coffee with a flavor shot poured in. Rather, I mean the coffee where the beans are flavored.

Kelly, check out this study.

Clin Physiol 1995 May;15(3):231-40
Effects of glucocorticoids and sympathomimetic agents on basal and insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism.

Paquot N, Schneiter P, Jequier E, Tappy L.

Institute of Physiology, Faculty of Medicine, Lausanne University, Switzerland.

The mechanisms responsible for glucocorticoid-induced insulin resistance remain unclear. Glucocorticoids show several interactions with the sympatho-adrenal system which may contribute to this decrease in insulin sensitivity: they enhance the synthesis and actions of catecholamines, but abolish insulin-induced activation of muscle sympathetic nerve activity. The present study was performed in order to investigate the effects of the interactions between glucocorticoids and the sympatho-adrenal system on insulin sensitivity. Basal and insulin-stimulated glucose metabolism was measured in healthy human subjects during four 2-h clamp studies as follows: control ©; after taking oral dexamethasone (2 mg daily) for 2 days (D); after taking oral ephedrine sulphate (40 mg daily) for 2 days (E); and after taking dexamethasone+ephedrine (D+E). Glucose uptake, production and oxidation were calculated from plasma 13C glucose and exhaled 13CO2 during constant tracer infusion of U-13C glucose. Basal glucose production, utilization and oxidation were similar in all four studies. During hyperinsulinaemia, glucose uptake was reduced by 51.5% with treatment D, by 25.9% with treatment E, and by 49.6% with D+E. Glucose oxidation was reduced by 54.0% with treatment D, by 24.0% with treatment E, and by 57.2% with D+E. Hepatic glucose production was completely suppressed in all four studies. It is concluded that both dexamethasone and ephedrine decrease insulin-mediated glucose uptake and oxidation. Co-administration of ephedrine does not suppress the glucocorticoid-induced alterations of glucose metabolism. This indicates that glucocorticoid-induced insulin resistance is not related to the inhibition of muscle sympathetic nerve activity. These results suggest instead that glucocorticoids and sympathomimetic agents may impair glucose metabolism by common actions.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

PMID: 7621645 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

In a recent study which looked at 6 months of 60 mg ephedra and 600 mg caffeine given to overweight subjects with no focus or change in activity or diet, the subjects had no change in fasting glucose levels. This could indicate that there was no change in insulin sensitivity, but it does not take into account the insulin response to a meal since they only looked at fasting results.

The study is sitting on my desk at work, so I'll post the reference on Monday so you guys can check it out yourself.

Yes but what were these obese people’s intial state of glycemia? Being obese, you’d often think their blood glucose levels are already high as they may already be insulin resistant to some degree. Then, when you factor in the idea that these people were likely eating less food because of the anorectic effects of E/C this may have negated some of the negative effects that e/c have on insulin sensitivity. Either way, this is a poor group of people to use when evaluating the effects on insulin sensitivity.

For those of you looking for caffeine and stimulant free alternatives try Ginseng, tyrosine, gingko biloba, and green tea extract.

In a number of E+C studies that my lab has conducted (published, pending publication or in the shoot), we have never observed changes in fasting glucose. We have not measured insulin in these studies though. We have used up to 600 mg caffeine. So, I have to agree with Jason. I tend to believe that if your metabolic profile is noprmal to start with, it will stay that way

Hoser, flavored beans add no calories; they’re just flavor-chemicals
added to the beans. I hang out at “Borders” (like your “Chapters”)
once or twice a week and order the best decaf you ever tasted
“chocolate almond”… simply OUTSTANDING! - Joey Z.

So what about caffeine-free Diet Dr. Pepper? I just switched to this two days ago and love it; however I’m drinking it in excess (6 cans yesterday). Any problem with this as far as body comp purposes? No caffeine, no cals.

Does anyone use just L-tyrosine? What is a good daily dosage to the fat burning effect?

Warning: Profuse Swearing Ahead

Goddamn....damn...not my blessed coffee...no way gonna switch to wimpy ass de-caff......no freakin' way.....dammit, JMB...WHY coffee? Why? Why?!

The above is a expected response from a typical Northwestern individual (me). The NW, home of Starbucks and with at least TWO espresso bars on every corner in either Portland or Seattle (and any other town with at least one gas station - cuz gas stations serve espresso, too). We all walk with big bags of dark, rich coffee so that we could be fed via continual intravenuous injection. Basically, with that report, there is a strong possibility JMB could be stoned here in Portland.

But besides the fact that coffee helps with my asthma, I just dig the taste of some good, rich brew. Almost as good as beer. However, I just read Jason N and doug kalman's posts. And I'm starting to feel, calm *sipping coffee* cool and collected. *another sip* AHHHH.

Okay I hate to be the bearer of further bad news but before anyone gets too excited about decaf, coffee is only required to have a minimum of 10%less caffeine to be called decaf. Typically an 8 oz cup (and who drinks coffee out of an 8oz cup) of coffee contains about 100 milligrams of caffeine, so you may only be cutting 10 mg by drinking decaf. Generally it is the premium decaf coffees that have the higher caffeine content. You know, the ones that you might actually want to drink. Black tea has about 50 milligrams and Green tea has about 30milligrams per 8 oz, so you are probably better off with that than decaf. Unless you can tolerate decaf folgers crystals, which are almost completely caffeine free.