T Nation

Jitsu?


#1

Hey guys, my first post here at T-Nation. I'm going to be starting college this fall and they have a "Jitsu" club which i intend to join. Apparently it's a version of JuJitsu developed in the UK which also teaches stand up fighting and self defence techniques (such as knife disarming). Has anyone else heard of or learnt Jitsu? How does it fare as a martial art as compared to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?


#2

Never heard of that particular version, but there are lots of styles of Jiu-Jitsu out there, some are off shoots of BJJ, others are not.

I've trained with Michael DePasquale Jr. a few times (his system is called Yoshitsune Jiu-Jitsu and was one of the first American Jiu-Jitsu systems). It incorporates stand up and self defense techniques along with ground fighting. "Traditional" Jiu-Jitsu is legitimate stuff if you are learning from a qualified instructor.


#3

I was interested in trying regular jiu-jitsu.... can't find anywere good around me though.


#4

DePasquale Jr. himself has a dojo in Rivervale NJ. I don't know where exactly in NJ you are, or how far you are willing to commute, but you aren't going to find too many instructors more qualified to teach you traditional JJ than DePasquale.

The exact address is:

DePasquale Self Defense Academy
187 Rivervale Rd., Rivervale NJ

Phone number is:
201-666-7100

All of the above info is available on his Academy's home site btw, just so no one thinks I'm giving out private info on a public forum.

http://www.depasqualeacademy.com/index.htm


#5

Why not BJJ though? What's the difference? The only comparative analysis i can find is through youtube video comments saying "BJJ will take these jitsu people out!". Apparently theres not much training against resisting partners because they practice on stationary opponents who are supposed to fall.

Even though theyve said they teach strikes and locks, you only see them breakfalling in videos...and they seem to be very proud of it.


#6

Youtube comments are a notoriously unreliable source, haha. MMA fan-boys abound. Muay thai and Bjj are the flavours of the day.

Traditional jujutsu is a japanese system, the focused mainly on throws, joint locks, and ground grappling. It was primarily used by samurai, as a means of un-armed combat. Strikes, although included in many schools sylabus's (sp?) was not emphasised. Many would say that traditional JJ does not truly exist anymore in orginal form, and I would say that is probably true. There were many JJ schools in Japan, and I do not know of any that exist and still teach the same techniques as they did at their inception.

It seems that the term jujutsu (or juijitsu/jiujitsu/how ever you wish to spell it) has been taken on by many schools, and now it means many things. Really, it means "art of softness", it's based on the idea that you can neutralize an opponent with minimal force. So I guess it is fitting for modern arts to use the term, but I still find it strange. Why should a club/school started in the UK want to use a japanese term for their system? I have often wondered about this, not just in relation to jujutsu, but also many other "styles" whose names have been used by "foriegners" for their own styles, such as "karate". I guess it is a nod to their previous learning, but still..

BJJ tends to focus very heavily on the ground grappling element of fighting. Also many BJJ schools are now very focused on either competition in BJJ, or in MMA competition. Many will attest that BJJ came from judo, which in turn came from jujutsu.

Judo focuses on the standing grappling much more than BJJ, although there is quite a large element of ground-work. As I said, Judo "came from" traditional Jujutsu. It also "suffers" (depending on your point of view) from being very sport orientated these days (generally speaking).

Jujutsu also spawned hapkido (a korean martial art), akido (another more modern japanese art), sambo ("russian judo") and shooto (also via judo).

So, history lessons aside...

It is probably impossible for anyone to comment on this particular school unless they attended it themselves.

And what matters most is not the "style" of martial art. What matters IMO is the particular instructor, and you as a student.
Go along and watch a class. See the instuctors teaching style. See how the other students are. See if it looks like your kind of thing. Go visit other schools in your area and compare. I could write an extensive list of things to watch for, to take note of, but I'm sure you're an intelligent guy.

Hope this was a helpful post


#7

My advice, if someone is teaching knife defense (or gun defense), is to ask if they have actually used the techniques they are showing. With the hand to hand stuff it's easier to know if something is "real" as there are numerous videos of actual fights out there but I have never seen any of a real fight involving a blade or someone disarming someone with a gun.


#8

Ju jitsu/jujutsu or however you want to spell it is, as already stated in the thread, based, or at least draws from unarmed combat used by samurai. How much of that side of it is left is debatable. While it can be a art for self defence, theres alot of 'sacrifice' throws (where you both end up on the deck) mixed in, likely with some traditional moves which would be hard to impossible to pull of against a resisting opponent (think Indian death lock). However, they may teach you a thing or two about body movement. Expect to see alot of locks and pins or various levels, joint manipulation, that sort of business.

I would advise, with ju-jitsu that you bear in mind, as with all martial arts, its only as good as the person training it, and it certainly isn't a one shot fixes all art, whatever the marketing department tells you. Having things like joint locks, pins and a few throws is bloody handy though for controlling a drunken friend whos getting lippy or pushy with the wrong kind of people :wink:

BJJ focuses heavily on grappling, submissions. I have yet to see strikes included in it. Its a combat sport. Watch it in MMA and its damn handy. However, taking someone to the deck to try and pull a submission on them in say, a bar disagreement thats getting out of hand isn't exactly appropriate, and his mates may join in. Which is bad times all round.

That said. Being able to control things on the ground is damn handy, and once again, control and restraint is useful, probably more so than ju-jitsu alone. Also, its a bitchin' workout if you are sparring hard.

Why not try to do both :stuck_out_tongue:

AS already stated. Be very wary of anything to do with knife fighting, or disarming someone with a knife. If the person hasn't tried it themselves, you could be putting your reliance in that situation, on something that doesnt work :frowning:


#9

most things depend on the given school/coach.
but to be honest, this doesn't sound good.
webpage?
also it depends what you are looking for. ma-fitness class? tma? mma? sport? self-defence(watch out here for any that doesn't do full spd/str as in rbsd)?


#10

My $0.02 is that it depends what you want. I have seen a lot of different martial arts demonstrated, and I have never seen a knife disarm or gun disarm that I thought would work in a practical setting.

I like Muay Thai and BJJ (and related arts) because you can spar 100% strength against a fully resisting person. You know that if you KO someone or submit them that what you are doing works. Any system where you cannot train it against someone who is fully resisting is less effective in my eyes.

If someone wants to show you a knife disarm, grab a magic marker and see if they can get the pen off you without you drawing all over them. You could try the gun disarms against a paintball type gun (goggles please for safety)


#11

Thanks a lot for all the responses! Ironically the people at the combat sports section seem more helpful than the other forums. lol. Heres the website:

http://www.kingsjitsu.com/

I think i'll attend a few classes and see if theyre teaching something that looks practical in terms of Self Defence and MMA. I just didnt want to waste time being taught how to be thrown around (and throw willing volunteers) and find that i dont know how to fight a year down the line. The college also has Muay Thai and Shotokan Karate Clubs which i'll check out as alternatives.


#12

There are only a couple of things that you need to know and you'll be fine:

  • never, under any circumstances, refer to BJJ or any form of jiu-jitsu as "jitz"

  • Yes, cauliflower ear makes you look tough, do not rub or punch your ear in an attempt to give yourself cauliflower ear.

  • Do not claim to be a fighter.

  • If you enter a tournament (any form of grappling), you compete in a match, not a fight.

  • I'll go ahead and help you out & let you in on a secret, never, under any circumstances, should you ever be convinced to go to www.matbattle.com, ever! I know a lot of you are going copy and paste that URL into your browser right now but don't. Seriously.

  • Become a member of the Underground....that is mma.tv (or www.mixedmartialarts.com for all you TUF newbs)


#13

Wicked idea. Must try the marker thing.


#14

-Yeah Jitz sounds pretty gay, infact even Jitsu sounded a bit 'naked' to me.

  • If i dont like the new look i can always get plastic surgery, the grow ears on mice nowadays

-I can see how claiming to be a fighter could get unwanted invites to duels, whats the other reasoning

  • I swear to God i didnt goto the site.

  • I'm afraid if i do that i might break rule number 3.


#15

by the look of the page, run far away :stuck_out_tongue:
but yeah, go and have a look, it might just look bad from a distance.
jj at my uni sux.

"In Jitsu you will learn to defend yourself against unarmed and armed attackers using their movement and balance to your advantage. Defences are based on practical attacks such as punches, bottles, knives, and baseball bats, to name but a few."
hehe...


#16

I think that this sounds a bit too much like a TMA....I have a blackbelt in TKD so I know a little bit about TMAs...I would run. If there is no rolling it is probably safe to say that you would hurt most of these guys fairly easily...

It can't hurt to check it out but it sort of seems a bit like a McDojo to me...


#17

I think that this sounds a bit too much like a TMA....I have a blackbelt in TKD so I know a little bit about TMAs...I would run. If there is no rolling it is probably safe to say that you would hurt most of these guys fairly easily...

It can't hurt to check it out but it sort of seems a bit like a McDojo to me...


#18

You are going to be in London and you are thinking of training there?

In London you have:

Roger Gracie www.rogergracie.com (Multiple times World Open Weight BJJ Champion and Reigning ADCC Superfight Champion.), y

ou have London Shoot http://www.londonshootfighters.com/ (pretty good MMA site.)

You have numerous other top level Black Belt BJJ instructors.

You have the Budokwai Judo centre http://www.thebudokwai.com/ (one of the oldest Judo schools outside of Japan, home to several Olympic champion judo players.)

You have KO Muay Thai ( http://www.ko-muaythai.com, say hi to Bill if you get down there, he is a really top bloke and great instructor)

all of the above will be more than prepared to cut you some sort of deal if you really want to train and money is the issue.


#19

Based on their website and a little google-fu, I'm skeptical. It's a bastardized agglomeration of Japanese jujitsu techniques with a poor or opaque lineage. On the other hand, they do randori (free practice) apparently and supposedly have a judo-rules contest. That's not too bad.

Frankly, I'd look for a Judo or BJJ if you want to grapple. Judo's usually cheap and widely available. And awesome.

If you're looking for striking, Shotokan (usually) sucks, at least in the US. Muay thai rocks.


#20

haha yeah seems like a 'Mcdojo' from the pictures which is why i was skeptical. I will check it out, but i guess i cant go wrong with the mauy thai club. The timings for classes clash so i cant take both.

Thanks for the links cockney blue, those clubs are pretty damn expensive if you ask me, maybe once i'm done with college and no longer have access to cheap training.