T Nation

Jim Wendler on 5-3-1 and MMA

[quote]westdale warrior wrote:
i wonder why in his main lifts of the day he advocates the use of a bench press. [/quote]

When I sparr or do pad work,I know that everywhere there are bunch of wannabes fighters bench pressing with their buddies yelling ITS ALL YOU!! ALL YOU!!

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Great post by Jim Wendler. Really, really great post. That hopefully all these fucking new guys that want to workout like Ronnie fucking COleman will read, and absorb because Wendler said it and not me.[/quote]

It is not going to help.

NOT

AT

ALL

“Wendler didn’t mention running in his post, just burpees and battling ropes so that is what a fighter should do for cardio bro.”

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

great post! :))

I d like to add that we need MMA wannabes to do more bench presses & curls,because they are neglected in most people programs.

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I despise the barbell bench press as it is because I believe it to be a ruiner of shoulders, and not really necessary for combat sports that rely heavily on striking.
[/quote]
If you watch the “So you think you can bench” series by Dave Tate, it addresses the proper way to bench to protect your shoulders from injury.[/quote]

I can’t learn to bench from an article. I’ve read it and tried, and with how fucked up my shoulders are, anything like that is going to be not worth my time or effort.

The bench simply isn’t important to me.

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:
You do the main lifts first then the accessory work. You don’t want to do one main lift then wear yourself out doing the accessory and then start to do another main lift. You want to be as fresh as possible for the main lifts. You could also probably alternate the accessory work too. Like do one lower body accessory, then one upper body, etc depending on how you want to do it. I just started the other day, so I’m not too sure what accessory work I’m going to be doing. Probably going to try to work in some dips and pullups.[/quote]

That is how I did it. Main lifts first and then I did all the accessory work. It seemed to work ok so I will stick with it. Thanks for clearing it up.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

  • I split four workouts over two weeks instead of doing two main exercises per session.
    [/quote]

I’ve found this works well for me as well…especially with the tasks of all the sparring,rolling,skill training,etc I get during the week.

I get banged up enough from that alone…

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I despise the barbell bench press as it is because I believe it to be a ruiner of shoulders, and not really necessary for combat sports that rely heavily on striking.
[/quote]
If you watch the “So you think you can bench” series by Dave Tate, it addresses the proper way to bench to protect your shoulders from injury.[/quote]

I can’t learn to bench from an article. I’ve read it and tried, and with how fucked up my shoulders are, anything like that is going to be not worth my time or effort.

The bench simply isn’t important to me.

[/quote]
It’s not an article it’s a 5 part video series on youtube. He talks about how he had shoulder pain, and how after he was taught to bench this way his shoulder pain stopped. Most of the video series is showing a new guy how to bench this way who also has shoulder problems.

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I despise the barbell bench press as it is because I believe it to be a ruiner of shoulders, and not really necessary for combat sports that rely heavily on striking.
[/quote]
If you watch the “So you think you can bench” series by Dave Tate, it addresses the proper way to bench to protect your shoulders from injury.[/quote]

I can’t learn to bench from an article. I’ve read it and tried, and with how fucked up my shoulders are, anything like that is going to be not worth my time or effort.

The bench simply isn’t important to me.

[/quote]
It’s not an article it’s a 5 part video series on youtube. He talks about how he had shoulder pain, and how after he was taught to bench this way his shoulder pain stopped. Most of the video series is showing a new guy how to bench this way who also has shoulder problems.[/quote]

I am in the same boat as Irish with the bad shoulders. I dont barbell bench anymore as it hurts. And I have watched dave tates series and tried to learn from other good benchers and at this point just removed it from my workouts. It hurts and i can get around not doing it with other exercises.

[quote]punchedbear wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Grimlorn wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I despise the barbell bench press as it is because I believe it to be a ruiner of shoulders, and not really necessary for combat sports that rely heavily on striking.
[/quote]
If you watch the “So you think you can bench” series by Dave Tate, it addresses the proper way to bench to protect your shoulders from injury.[/quote]

I can’t learn to bench from an article. I’ve read it and tried, and with how fucked up my shoulders are, anything like that is going to be not worth my time or effort.

The bench simply isn’t important to me.

[/quote]
It’s not an article it’s a 5 part video series on youtube. He talks about how he had shoulder pain, and how after he was taught to bench this way his shoulder pain stopped. Most of the video series is showing a new guy how to bench this way who also has shoulder problems.[/quote]

I am in the same boat as Irish with the bad shoulders. I dont barbell bench anymore as it hurts. And I have watched dave tates series and tried to learn from other good benchers and at this point just removed it from my workouts. It hurts and i can get around not doing it with other exercises. [/quote]

See that’s the thing - it’s just the point of diminishing returns for me. After checking those articles out, I’ve got to say they’re terrific, as everything Dave Tate does is. But, in the same way that I can’t learn to box from a video, I cannot learn to do what he’s talking about correctly through a video.

If he ever gave a seminar around here or something I would be the first one in line to give it a shot, cause I’d love to be able to bench again. But at this point, with the serious injuries I’ve had (multiple dislocations), what’s the point? I can punch harder than a mule kicks with my left hand (southpaw), and benching more or less isn’t going to change that.

And, it certainly isn’t going to give me more punching endurance, per se, so the usefulness for boxing just ain’t there to make it worth it. In my 5/3/1 I substitute bentover rows on that day, because when I throw a thousand punches a workout three or four days a week, I need all the back work I can get.

I still do dumbbell bench presses though, I’m just very careful with them. Hitting big numbers isn’t my game at this point.

Thanks though Grim, I’m going to save those articles and go over them again.

I used to try and force it for years and go through the pain until I read a book from JC Santana. He talked about how he never had his guys benching and he was training guys like Jeff Monsoon who is a pretty strong guy. I agreed with him on the reasons for it and decided to go that route and just scrap it.

I havnt had any major strength issues and my shoulders feel better so I guess the barbell isnt for me. I also wonder how much you really need chest work anyways in a fight sport. maybe in pushing the guy up off you but in stand up striking I just dont see how much movement is started from the chest.

Wendler has put together a good split, basically im biased cos mine are similar (with the addition of Olifts), I generally never assign bench press to fighters, occasional floor pressing when we are working general strength plans.

As for shoulders the number one structural balance issue I seen in fighters is upper cross syndrome, some humeri so internally rotated the index knuckle touches the leg when relaxed. Alot of time with my fighters has to be invested in fixing scapular weakness and dysfunction.

I like 5/3/1 percentages, Main difference between my programming is a have fighters hit multiples at 85-95% of 1RM I feel RFD carry over is superior, its does need cycling. So instead of repping out hit that 5, 3 or 1 rep for multiple sets instead of repping out like Wendler describes. But again it depends on the fighters training age and weightroom experiance.

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
I don’t do 5-3-1 simply because I don’t want to mess with charts and percentages and stuff. I’ve done well these past 18-19 years without all of that, so why should I start now? As for the coaching thing, I find more pleasure in coaching than I do in competing. And I only fought at the amateur level. [/quote]

http://www.strstd.com/

[quote]JRT6 wrote:

[quote]Rodimus Black wrote:
I don’t do 5-3-1 simply because I don’t want to mess with charts and percentages and stuff. I’ve done well these past 18-19 years without all of that, so why should I start now? As for the coaching thing, I find more pleasure in coaching than I do in competing. And I only fought at the amateur level. [/quote]

http://www.strstd.com/[/quote]

You’re gonna have to change that avatar pal… every time I see that I think of my old pal Rainjack.

That is a cool site, makes me feel like I am being lazy and that I could possibly do away with my log book that I hand write…

never do away with the log book