Chris, I think that was Kenny Croxdale at Strengthcats. I also think that a fellow t-mag member spoke with him over the phone. In both cases, Jay refused to be specific.
When I said they were too complex to talk about I meant they were way too complex to talk about now, since Jay keeps his stuff on the inside. He doesn’t write articles like CT and all these other strength coaches. Like, he’ll give out a sample program in one of the few things i’ve seen him write, but it isn’t enough to put together a whole program based on it for you.
DB and JS very well could be the same person, I have no clue.
What do you mean too complex now?
Now at this current time, because Jay doesn’t let his information and his stuff out to the public, like he doesn’t write articles like a lot of other strength coaches do. Maybe in the future he will, but now, nobody can really talk about his training unless they’ve trained with him because of the complexity of it. I’m not trying to get into a fight with people, I gotta go with what Silverback said.
I know but it’s really not that complex at all.
DB and JS are the same person? I went to DBs website a couple months a go and he is based in germany or one of those european countries. If you’re willing to fork out $$$, you can do that camp thing there for a period of time and learn under him over. Funny thing is that I’ve never seen a pic of DB. DBs articles at elitefs don’t make any sense at first b/c his writing is too complex. Kelly Bagget wrote an article about DN and his training method which cleared up a bit.
John- Fine. Maybe I didn’t say it right then. Aright maybe it’s not that complex, it’s just that nobody knows too much about since he keeps his stuff close to him and doesn’t really open it to the public much (besides the seminar with Coach Davies).
John- I’m not trying to disagree with you. I just didn’t say it the way I meant it. I totally see what you’re saying.
Just wondering, do you know anything about his training methods, because I’d be curious to know? I’m not writing this to be a dick, I’m just curious if you are familiar with his training.
DB is def a ghost writer. you can fork over a lot of money to go train at his facility in germany and yet for some reason, its always full. also, no one has ever talked with him on the phone. on the cf site, this has been discussed and some other strength coaches in europe have never heard of the guy.
John- You obviously know a lot more about Jay Schroeder and his methods than I do. My previous posts were stupid and ignorant.
I was going to let this thread pass - but some of the comments seem rather incredible.
Ignoring the ridiculous - Jay is not DB, I think you’ll find that he is one of the most ethical men in this profession, certainly of those that I have met. While he hasn’t chosen to publish yet, I will stress that anything you read of his work is highly speculative guess-work and inaccurate. However if had attended our conference you would have found out, like those who did, how open he is to help.
In faith,
Coach Davies
I dont know much about DB Hammer or Jay Schroeder, but I was looking over at the charliefrancis boards and I found this post by CT, and I thought it was pretty funny.
I don’t want to beat a dead horse, and I know that this is supposed to be a discussion on the methods used by DB Hammer. But considering that the more mature and knowledgeable guys on this board seems to participate in this thread I thought that I would hijack it for a second…
WHAT IF…
DB Hammer was none other than Jay Schroedder? I aluded to this theory in the other thread, but the more I think of it, the more it makes sense to me… Let’s consider the facts:
FACT #1: The training methods used by both coaches are exactly the same. Same use of extended isometrics to build muscle mass. Bench throws, drop and catch exercises, depth landings etc.
It’s true that I use much of the same techniques, in fact more than 30 different methods are detailed in my new book (see how I was able to gently plug my book!), but I mean, EVERYTHING is exactly the same!
FACT #2: Both coaches use the same language… for example they profusely use the term “methodics”. This wouldn’t be out of the ordinary IF this were a common training term, however since no coaches in the world has ever used that term, nor is it used in any sport-science literature, nor is it even a noun! So when I see two coaches, espousing the exact same training techniques, using the same unknown terminology it puzzles me.
Another example of this is when they talk about biceps work, or vanity work. Both coaches (DB’S book and Jay’s DVD) give the exact same explanation about the use of vanity work. And they even word it the same way.
One last example is the use of three letter abbreviations to explain training methods.
FACT #3: DB Hammer doesn’t seem to officially exist. Now, I know that this point is debatable. But as a member already mentionned, there is no mentionned of him in the German hammer results database going back to 1927! Furthermore he claims to have worked with a lot of medal winners. Even if there was a confidentiality agreement between him and his athletes, surely his name would have surfaced in the sporting world, or at least in the strength-coaching community. If he was that good, even with a CA somethings would have leaked out, especially considering that he claims to have been working with athletes for decades.
Speaking of confidentiality agreement, Jay S requires the same time of agreement with the athletes he works with. Even if a coach wants to go work with him for a week he has to sign such an agreement (Tony Schwartz had to sign such an agreement). I know that a lot of coaches use that sort of paper, but it’s still odd.
FACT #4: Jay S is based in Mesa, Arizona while DB’s book was shipped to me from Mesa Arizona. Now there are a lot of ways to explain this. Maybe his editor is based in Mesa. Maybe he works with Schroedder and the later is his US distributor, who knows? But considering the other facts, this is the icing on the cake!
FACT #5: Both appeal to opposites. Jay S targets the “high class” market (charging an hefty sum for teaching his methods to all who want to learn) while DB targets the “populo barbaro”, making his secrets available for very little money, even offering some support for free.
How does this indicate that both could be the same guy? It’s kinda like a lexus/camry deal… both are made by the same company, both use the same platform, but the lexus targets the high class market while the camry targets the middle class. This way, with much of the same product, they can double their market.
This is what’s happening here. Jay S. does charge a helluva lot of money for consultations, at this cost I doubt that many guys/teams would hire him. He might get 1-3 such clients per year. Enough to make a decent living, but nothing more. However, since he charges so much already, he really cannot offer “cheaper” deals … he would seem unfair to his clients who paid the big bucks and might lead his “cheaper” clients to believe that they are not getting the real deal.
However, if he had another identity he could offer a cheaper service to the masses to make his money, and cash in with the big clients. Just a thought…
FACT #6: Evo-sport and Inno-sport … doesn’t that sound similar?
FACT #7: Both coaches use time as their main training variable instead of reps… in fact in Jay’s DVD the (vague) instructions calls for performing each exercise for a certain amount of time, not reps. And as we now know, one of DB’s biggest principle is the use of time zones to plan training.
FACT #8: 6% … DB states that one should aim for a 6% fatigue level while Jay said that he aims to induce a 6% overtraining state in his athletes.
Now, some peoples believe that DB might have actually been Jay’s teacher, which would explain the similarities in their techniques. This is a possible option. But considering the timing factor it seems just a little off.
Any opinion on this?
http://www.charliefrancis.com/community/showthread.php?t=5097
For $500.00 I would hope the man to be extremely helpful! To those who went to the conference how much did you learn? How specific was he in his discussion in terms of strategies/methods?
I’m intrigued by Schroeder, however I wonder if anyone has had the results of AA. Doesn’t seem like that’s the case and the proximity of ASU would assume that some would see the success of Adam, seek out Jay and have similar results. My guess though is that Adam had extreme mental toughness, consistency and excellent fast-twitch muscle composition. I can’t think of anyone his weight in the NFL who benches 500 and you have perfect mesomorphs there.
“If you’re willing to fork out $$$, you can do that camp thing there for a period of time and learn under him over.”
Hmmm… That option was not advertised at a price… you could apply and be interviewed and then be accepted…
Funnily enough that option was never not full… so no one could ever have applied to my knowledge… convenient yeah???
Now I’m thinking maybe Coach Davies is DB …
In all seriousness though, Take CT, Kelly Bagget and others - their work is much more important than postulating (now there’s a big word!!!) about JS’s training - the fact is that anyone (as CT outlined above) can create hype and speculation to create a perception of greatness …
I’d far rather throw someone like CT a few bucks and learn from his work anyway…
CT is the most approachable coach out there today, in my opinion, especially on a value basis. You can’t beat his rates for the quality of info when compared to coaches like Poliquin and Schroeder. Of course, he hasn’t developed the “name” that the other coaches have yet. I stress the “yet”. Whether DB or JS are the same person or use the same technique, who knows? I do however think that they go about their training focusing on the neural system and less focus on the muscular system.
Back to the original topic. How can we improve sprint times without sprinting? If technical sprinting patterns and function stay the same and we improve the horsepower behind those functions then we can expect sprint speed to increase as well. How much sprinting is necessary to maintain technical capacity? - I would say less than what most people think, especially in an acceleration run vs a run that requires speed endurance. Thoughts?
I agree Kelly. Kelly- Could you elaborate a little more on that. Thanks.
Kelly~
True, but it depends on your level of training vs. your technique.
Was it DB who stated that eastern throwers practice 5:1 on the actual skill vs. weights? Not sure…but I think it was…
I am with you though. My experience is that limited max acceleration / agility work coupled with tempos and drills for form plus a heavy dose of weights will produce the best gains for most trainees.
Just reading most posts here, there are few ‘athletes’ here who truly top of the thigh parallel squat even twice their weight, let alone 3X their weight. The level of strength vs bodyweight is still the biggest hurdle at the low levels… and that is where most people here seem to be.
Excellent point, silverback. I read that Andy Bloom, a world class thrower, squatted 700 pounds and had a 40" vertical to go with 11’8 broad jump: numbers any NFL d-back would love to have. Maximal Strength must be developed first and then translated into power (speed-strength).