Oh, really? I think suffix IS mr. Baran. I posted lots of quotes with references, including textbooks, the statements of the Founding Fathers themselves, historians, and the Congressional acknowledgements. All Mr. Baran gave me back was pretty much, “Oh YEAH? Well that’s just liberal propaganda!” and only one source that said–you guessd it–“It’s liberal propaganda”, the usual denial of ultra-right-wing revisionism when even historical facts go against their philosophies. Are you sure you read the same conversation the rest of us did? (I will agree that Jason’s question about point-for-point comparisons goes unanswered, but only because the moderators did not post my LONG and complete reply to that. I referred to that below, and reluctantly conceeded that the most I can post here, then, are the citations for the information for Jason to get the data himself, since the moderators declined my response here–certainly not because there WASN’T one, though.)