James Henderson 10 Minutes to 6 Vid

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:
That is good shit though. There are a lot of guys that could benefit by simply learning how to perform the 3 lifts in a more efficient manner.

Yes, I suppose there are. The absolute, most efficient way to lift an 600 lb. loaded barbell is with a forklift, you know.

Why bother getting under the bar at all?

Seriously.

At what point do you draw the line?

I’m extremely well aware of the fact that the sport of powerlifting is all about lifting as much weight as possible.

And I use that as direct proof to back up my assertion that most powerlifters are cheaters.

See, you’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. I have read all of your excuses many times before. Any time this issue is raised, the ensuing discussion always plays out the same way.

I “expect” to be told to “shutup until you can bench 600”. I won’t.

I “expect” someone to rehash Louie Simmon’s quote about a bench shirt sitting in a locker never having benched any weight on it’s own. That’s laughable. It’s 3rd-grade stuff. A crane also requires a human operator in order to function. I assume then, that you wouldn’t consider it cheating if I were to use one to compete in your sport?

You assume that I’m one of “the ignorant masses” who needs to be indoctrinated in the ways of your sport, but in reality, I know much about powerlifting…it’s just that, unlike you, I haven’t swallowed the kool aid. I tasted it and spit it out.

The fact that “your federation sanctions it” doesn’t mean jack squat to me. Why would I care about your federation when I’m arguing that powerlifting, as a whole, is a sport based upon “cheating”, which is defined as doing as little work as possible in order to accomplish a given feat? This mentality is antithetical to nearly every other sport.

I know it’s “all about the total”. You needn’t inform me. I’m using that very fact to prove my point.

I’m not an ignorant outsider, I’m a conscious, fully-informed dissident, a traitor-from-within.

Should this discussion continue on its present course, I would expect to see lots of whining and not one coherent challenge to my assertion that lifting raw, Henderson-style, is more difficult and therefore more impressive than the alternative.[/quote]

how about you tell us how you really feel:)

i’m definitely not going to argue with you becuase I agree that lifting the way he does is more difficult.

you get the internet trophy.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:
That is good shit though. There are a lot of guys that could benefit by simply learning how to perform the 3 lifts in a more efficient manner.

Yes, I suppose there are. The absolute, most efficient way to lift an 600 lb. loaded barbell is with a forklift, you know.

Why bother getting under the bar at all?

Seriously.

At what point do you draw the line?

I’m extremely well aware of the fact that the sport of powerlifting is all about lifting as much weight as possible.

And I use that as direct proof to back up my assertion that most powerlifters are cheaters.

See, you’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. I have read all of your excuses many times before. Any time this issue is raised, the ensuing discussion always plays out the same way.

I “expect” to be told to “shutup until you can bench 600”. I won’t.

I “expect” someone to rehash Louie Simmon’s quote about a bench shirt sitting in a locker never having benched any weight on it’s own. That’s laughable. It’s 3rd-grade stuff. A crane also requires a human operator in order to function. I assume then, that you wouldn’t consider it cheating if I were to use one to compete in your sport?

You assume that I’m one of “the ignorant masses” who needs to be indoctrinated in the ways of your sport, but in reality, I know much about powerlifting…it’s just that, unlike you, I haven’t swallowed the kool aid. I tasted it and spit it out.

The fact that “your federation sanctions it” doesn’t mean jack squat to me. Why would I care about your federation when I’m arguing that powerlifting, as a whole, is a sport based upon “cheating”, which is defined as doing as little work as possible in order to accomplish a given feat? This mentality is antithetical to nearly every other sport.

I know it’s “all about the total”. You needn’t inform me. I’m using that very fact to prove my point.

I’m not an ignorant outsider, I’m a conscious, fully-informed dissident, a traitor-from-within.

Should this discussion continue on its present course, I would expect to see lots of whining and not one coherent challenge to my assertion that lifting raw, Henderson-style, is more difficult and therefore more impressive than the alternative.[/quote]

You need a girlfriend

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yes, I suppose there are. The absolute, most efficient way to lift an 600 lb. loaded barbell is with a forklift, you know.

Why bother getting under the bar at all?

Seriously.

At what point do you draw the line?

I’m extremely well aware of the fact that the sport of powerlifting is all about lifting as much weight as possible.

And I use that as direct proof to back up my assertion that most powerlifters are cheaters.

See, you’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. I have read all of your excuses many times before. Any time this issue is raised, the ensuing discussion always plays out the same way.

I “expect” to be told to “shutup until you can bench 600”. I won’t.

I “expect” someone to rehash Louie Simmon’s quote about a bench shirt sitting in a locker never having benched any weight on it’s own. That’s laughable. It’s 3rd-grade stuff. A crane also requires a human operator in order to function. I assume then, that you wouldn’t consider it cheating if I were to use one to compete in your sport?

You assume that I’m one of “the ignorant masses” who needs to be indoctrinated in the ways of your sport, but in reality, I know much about powerlifting…it’s just that, unlike you, I haven’t swallowed the kool aid. I tasted it and spit it out.

The fact that “your federation sanctions it” doesn’t mean jack squat to me. Why would I care about your federation when I’m arguing that powerlifting, as a whole, is a sport based upon “cheating”, which is defined as doing as little work as possible in order to accomplish a given feat? This mentality is antithetical to nearly every other sport.

I know it’s “all about the total”. You needn’t inform me. I’m using that very fact to prove my point.

I’m not an ignorant outsider, I’m a conscious, fully-informed dissident, a traitor-from-within.

Should this discussion continue on its present course, I would expect to see lots of whining and not one coherent challenge to my assertion that lifting raw, Henderson-style, is more difficult and therefore more impressive than the alternative.[/quote]

Your point is what? You don’t like powerlifting? Fine, don’t do it. Free country and all (at least in that sense).

I just figured you were being sarcastic because I thought that someone browsing the strength sports forum would be a little more, I don’t know, into strength sports.

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I just figured you were being sarcastic because I thought that someone browsing the strength sports forum would be a little more, I don’t know, into strength sports.[/quote]

Need I remind you that, on an international level, no one outside of the US takes powerlifting seriously. Go to Bulgaria, Iran, Russia, China, Egypt, Germany, Sweden, etc…you will see weight lifters squatting without suits, often without wraps, ass to grass, and benching with elbows flared out, without an arch, taking the bar to their chest, not their stomachs.

So, THIS is what the entire world conceives strength training to be. Ask 100 people off the street to lie on a bench and press a bar, and you will get 100 variations of the classic “bodybuilder bench press” with elbows flared out, bar taken to the chest, and no back arch or leg drive.

Things really do change once you leave Texas and Ohio.

He’s a freak, he’s positive, he’s being filmed and he’s having fun. This typically does draw a lot of hate, but I find it inspiring and entertaining.

With respect to Nominal Prospect’s remark:

“Need I remind you that, on an international level, no one outside of the US takes powerlifting seriously. Go to Bulgaria, Iran, Russia, China, Egypt, Germany, Sweden, etc…you will see weight lifters squatting without suits, often without wraps, ass to grass, and benching with elbows flared out, without an arch, taking the bar to their chest, not their stomachs.”

It would be the same as most of us starting to do olympic lifts in, they would point out a dozen glaring inefficiencies that show how this lifts less.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Steel Nation wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
Have to say, a guy like this commands far more respect than a chump who benches in triple ply gear, using tight wraps, with elbows tucked and a 4" working ROM.

I’m a bit surprised that no one has yet commented (here or on Youtube) that “he could lift more weight if he tucked his elbows.” In other words, if he cheated. I bet someone will come along and say that eventually.

here’s a two part article i just wrote… i’m sure you will enjoy it.

http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/other/2009/how-to-cheat-in-powerlifting.htm

http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/other/2009/how-to-cheat-in-powerlifting.htm

Meat, both links went to the same article.

That is good shit though. There are a lot of guys that could benefit by simply learning how to perform the 3 lifts in a more efficient manner.

Nominal Prospect, I really hope that was sarcasm.

hopefully this is part 2.
http://www.staleytraining.com/articles/other/2009/how-to-cheat-in-powerlifting2.htm

[/quote]

Can you elaborate on how the wider bench grip helps you life more? I find since I’m short with short arms (I’m only about 5’ 6"), I need to have my pinkies on the rings in the knurling otherwise if I’m too far out I have too little tricep action and if I’m too much farther in it’s almost all triceps.

Can someone also explain why tucking the elbows would be considered cheating? I was under the impression that tucking the elbows was a means of increasing tricep recruitment.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
lots of blah blah blah[/quote]

Yep, benching like J Hendo is harder. I like to do things the easy way.

[quote]JLu wrote:

Can you elaborate on how the wider bench grip helps you life more? I find since I’m short with short arms (I’m only about 5’ 6"), I need to have my pinkies on the rings in the knurling otherwise if I’m too far out I have too little tricep action and if I’m too much farther in it’s almost all triceps.

Can someone also explain why tucking the elbows would be considered cheating? I was under the impression that tucking the elbows was a means of increasing tricep recruitment. [/quote]

taking a wide grip limits the ROM. now, a wide grip varys depending on how long your arms are. I have pretty short arms but i still take my grip out to the legal limit.

you say you don’t get tricep involvement. that may be because you aren’t rolling your elbows in before you initiate the press. there’s a cue known as “bending the bar” that will teach you to get the triceps involved more. as you unrack the bar grip the bar as if you are trying to bend the bar in half. (bending it so that the sleaves would touch at the bottom of the bench).do this will naturally roll the elbows in and bring the triceps into the movement. it will also make it easier to tuck the elbows on the way down.

if i were you i would keep playing around with your grip. at first a wider grip will feel uncomfortable and you will be weaker at it. over time you will definitely be stronger though.

as for tucking the elbows as cheating… you got me. i think it’s just good sense. i don’t see how incorportating as many muscle groups as possible into a lift as cheating. also, tucking the elbows takes a ton of stress of the shoulder/pec tie in. i used to have shoulder problems when i did the typical bodybuilder bench with elbows flared. now that i tuck my elbows, i have zero pain.

NP,

Youre a “dissident from within”? Have you ever competed in powerlifting?

If using a bench shirt is as simple as your crane analogy, then things would be different and there wouldnt be an entire thread on here about how to make a bench shirt work. Im seriously doubting that youve ever lifted in any sort of gear and, as usual, you are injecting your ignorant opinions into matters which do not concern you in the least.

Just because the average person on the street cannot bench correctly, doesnt mean that their form becomes correct. If you were to go to Russia, Iceland, Finland, England, Bulgaria, wherever and find powerlifters…chances are, they would be using single or multiply gear. If they arent powerlifters, then how they do things or what they do or do not wear is not relevant to a discussion about powerlifting.

Dont you have some fat housewives to be training or something?

Whoever was wondering, I messaged Mike Seigler jr. a while ago, and he said his fathers best Raw bench in comp. was 650.

I think Mike is definitley a better bencher then James Henderson, even tho Mike did 50 lbs. less then Henderson, Mike weighs less, and did his 650 with a pause.

[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
Whoever was wondering, I messaged Mike Seigler jr. a while ago, and he said his fathers best Raw bench in comp. was 650.

I think Mike is definitley a better bencher then James Henderson, even tho Mike did 50 lbs. less then Henderson, Mike weighs less, and did his 650 with a pause.[/quote]

Haven’t been able to find a vid, but Henderson did 711lbs in competition. That means with a pause.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
BlackLabel wrote:
Whoever was wondering, I messaged Mike Seigler jr. a while ago, and he said his fathers best Raw bench in comp. was 650.

I think Mike is definitley a better bencher then James Henderson, even tho Mike did 50 lbs. less then Henderson, Mike weighs less, and did his 650 with a pause.

Haven’t been able to find a vid, but Henderson did 711lbs in competition. That means with a pause.[/quote]

Oh, I didnt know he did 711 lbs. in a competition.

[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BlackLabel wrote:
Whoever was wondering, I messaged Mike Seigler jr. a while ago, and he said his fathers best Raw bench in comp. was 650.

I think Mike is definitley a better bencher then James Henderson, even tho Mike did 50 lbs. less then Henderson, Mike weighs less, and did his 650 with a pause.

Haven’t been able to find a vid, but Henderson did 711lbs in competition. That means with a pause.

Oh, I didnt know he did 711 lbs. in a competition.[/quote]

Been searching like mad for the video. So far no dice. What class does Siegler lift in?

Im not to sure at what he competed at, but its been said in the comment section that hes weighing around 230 right now.

And I cant tell if his son is fucking with me or not, but apperently the guys diet is complete shit, he only eats in the morning and a little at night, nothing inbetween. Which I dont see how thats possible.

[quote]BlackLabel wrote:
Im not to sure at what he competed at, but its been said in the comment section that hes weighing around 230 right now.

And I cant tell if his son is fucking with me or not, but apperently the guys diet is complete shit, he only eats in the morning and a little at night, nothing inbetween. Which I dont see how thats possible.[/quote]

I just youtubed him. I’ve seen most of those vids before. That dude is a freak, but I highly doubt he eats twice a day. And yeah, he’s definitely one of the best benchers of all time.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:

The fact that “your federation sanctions it” doesn’t mean jack squat to me. Why would I care about your federation when I’m arguing that powerlifting, as a whole, is a sport based upon “cheating”, which is defined as doing as little work as possible in order to accomplish a given feat? This mentality is antithetical to nearly every other sport.
[/quote]

Its very obvious you have never been involved in athletics, let alone powerlifting. Why should we always try to make something harder? Should a passing team in the N.F.L. not try to run out the clock when they are up, because that would make winning easier? Should a golfer who takes risks normally continue to do so when he is winning a tournament? Should an N.B.A. team line up a bunch of 5 footers? Would be a lot harder. Optimizing the dimensions of your sport is what makes great coaches great, and great athletes legends.

If you honestly argue that PL is a sport founded upon cheating, then, using your logic, I argue that school is based upon cheating. You know you have a test, you know what’s on it. You know what notes to study, and how the teacher likes to test. Then you study your ass off and get a good mark. Is someone who busts ass for straight A’s a cheater because they don’t have the natural ability to walk in and take a test without preparing for it?

If you actually lift weights, what kind of exercises do you use? Hopefully just single joint exercises with little weight, because its a lot harder (and thus, more noble) to make progress than those cheaters in the squat rack. How is your diet? Hopefully dog shit, because eating right and taking good supplements is cheating. Should Olympic weightlifters wear cement boots? Should running backs wear no helmet? This is the ridiculous extension of what your saying.

Your entire line of thinking makes no sense. You say it is more efficient to lift with a crane, thus anyone who does a one arm bench earns more respect in your book?

So really, where do you draw the line? When is it not cheating?

[quote]Tags wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:

The fact that “your federation sanctions it” doesn’t mean jack squat to me. Why would I care about your federation when I’m arguing that powerlifting, as a whole, is a sport based upon “cheating”, which is defined as doing as little work as possible in order to accomplish a given feat? This mentality is antithetical to nearly every other sport.

Its very obvious you have never been involved in athletics, let alone powerlifting. Why should we always try to make something harder? Should a passing team in the N.F.L. not try to run out the clock when they are up, because that would make winning easier? Should a golfer who takes risks normally continue to do so when he is winning a tournament? Should an N.B.A. team line up a bunch of 5 footers? Would be a lot harder. Optimizing the dimensions of your sport is what makes great coaches great, and great athletes legends.

If you honestly argue that PL is a sport founded upon cheating, then, using your logic, I argue that school is based upon cheating. You know you have a test, you know what’s on it. You know what notes to study, and how the teacher likes to test. Then you study your ass off and get a good mark. Is someone who busts ass for straight A’s a cheater because they don’t have the natural ability to walk in and take a test without preparing for it?

If you actually lift weights, what kind of exercises do you use? Hopefully just single joint exercises with little weight, because its a lot harder (and thus, more noble) to make progress than those cheaters in the squat rack. How is your diet? Hopefully dog shit, because eating right and taking good supplements is cheating. Should Olympic weightlifters wear cement boots? Should running backs wear no helmet? This is the ridiculous extension of what your saying.

Your entire line of thinking makes no sense. You say it is more efficient to lift with a crane, thus anyone who does a one arm bench earns more respect in your book?

So really, where do you draw the line? When is it not cheating? [/quote]

This is pretty much what I was thinking. Are high jumpers not good jumpers because they use the flop? Are runners not fast if they’ve had their gait coached? I suppose swimming is only impressive if done bare assed in a body of natural water?

I bet NP reads a dog-eared “Harrison Bergeron” every night before bed.

So, its my understanding that James Henderson held the WR bench title before Scott Mendelson?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
NP,

Youre a “dissident from within”? Have you ever competed in powerlifting?[/quote]

No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. The knowledge appeared in my head mysteriously.

Yeah? Look at how many threads and boards there are devoted to the usage of anabolics. Yet the majority of the public and all athletic bodies that I’m aware of still consider that to be cheating. I don’t share their opinions, mind you, but it goes to show that just because the practice in question adds a new level of complexity to the sport does not make it legitimate, necessarily.

So, weight lifters who do the squat, bench and dead aren’t allowed to comment on powerlifters who do the squat, bench, and dead? In that case, away with the veterans who dispense advice to beginners. No one should be allowed to comment on anything. After all, if every distinct group is “equally valuable” to the rest, then skinny runts have as much right to act as lifting guru’s as the more muscularly accomplished.

[quote]Tags wrote:
Your entire line of thinking makes no sense. You say it is more efficient to lift with a crane, thus anyone who does a one arm bench earns more respect in your book?

So really, where do you draw the line? When is it not cheating? [/quote]

The reality is that each new practice must be analyzed on a case-by-case basis. This is the only valid answer to the question you posed, and intelligent people know it already. My own view holds that, if the introduction of a new skillset leads to a radical shift in the way that a sport is performed, that is a defining moment which must be addressed by acknowledging the fundamental shift that has taken place. The most pragmatic thing to do would be to branch off entirely from the old sport and create a new one.

Problems arise when this does not occur, as the semantic limitations of language contribute to the grouping of relatively disparate entities under common umbrella terms, such as “Strength Training” for both Power Lifting and Olympic Lifting.

A “skillset” can arguably be anything, from wearing cleats in field sports to taking water breaks or using more advanced tactics. What constitutes a radical shift is entirely subject to individual interpretation.

On a deeper level, I don’t believe that “strength” really exists at all, or that it can be quantified in any objective fashion. I have voiced my opinion to the effect that “no one has any idea what this thing called strength is or where it can be found and how it may be accurately measured.”

I would say the same of athletic talent in general. That is the reason why I choose to train for aesthetics over performance and strength.

Every sport has rules to govern the conduct of its participants. Those who break them are generally considered “cheaters”. The whole purpose of “winning” in sports is to achieve this outcome within the confines of a pre-determined system of rules that is made known to all participants prior to the start of competition.