[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
It’s not like hendo has never been taken down by lesser wrestlers. [/quote]
It’s not just being taken down though. Shields would have to take him down, gain a dominant position, and keep him there long enough to catch him in something. All of this without Hendo knocking his head into the third row in the process of trying.
And what naturally smaller, lesser wrestler has taken Hendo down?[/quote]
Srsly? Ninja Rua took Hendo down.
Overeem would not stand a chance in the UFC. Overeem was just average in Pride. He also lost to Werdum, who Strikeforce also has signed.
His Strikeforce belt was won when he beat Paul Buentello. Buentello can’t even compete with the second tier of UFC heavyweights. Overeem is in the same class maybe Chieck Congo, but fighters like Mir, Carwin, Velasquez, Lesnar, and Fedor would just destroy him.
BTW, how is Brett Rogers getting the title shot with Overeem in May instead of Fedor? Strikeforce doesn’t make any sense at all to me.
Fedor doesn’t want to fight Overeem, his management stated because he’s a roided freak or whatever. Also Brett Rogers has been asking to fight Overeem for a looong time now.
People are foregetting Overeem has A. Gotten much bigger and stronger. B. Done pretty well in K1 he beat Badr Hari and is overall better now. C. HW’s are not as good skill wise as lower weight fighters, even Frank Mir has stated this.
Hey sentoguy,
i think you meant to say he dropped the most vicious “thermonuclear hand bomb” that caused bisping not to
remeber anything. flying elbow, please… more like hell hath no fury like a hendo pissed off!
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
It’s not like hendo has never been taken down by lesser wrestlers. [/quote]
It’s not just being taken down though. Shields would have to take him down, gain a dominant position, and keep him there long enough to catch him in something. All of this without Hendo knocking his head into the third row in the process of trying.
And what naturally smaller, lesser wrestler has taken Hendo down?[/quote]
Srsly? Ninja Rua took Hendo down.[/quote]
Well ok, you’ve got me there. But Rua is also a much, much better striker than Shields and therefore Hendo had to worry about both his striking on the feet and his grappling. Shields looks like a fish out of water in the striking game.
Shields also couldn’t take down and keep down Robby Lawler. So I doubt he’s going to be taking down Hendo and keeping him there.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Fedor doesn’t want to fight Overeem, his management stated because he’s a roided freak or whatever. Also Brett Rogers has been asking to fight Overeem for a looong time now.
People are foregetting Overeem has A. Gotten much bigger and stronger. B. Done pretty well in K1 he beat Badr Hari and is overall better now. C. HW’s are not as good skill wise as lower weight fighters, even Frank Mir has stated this.[/quote]
I still think Fedor would beat him though. I doubt him not wanting to fight him is due to the roids and probably more due to money issues (knowing Fedor’s management). Heck, he fought plenty of guys in Pride who were heavy juice users; didn’t seem to bother him then.
People are attacking Overeem saying he is weak, that he was a dog in PRIDE, but holy crap he was just a tiny kid on LHW, fighters IMPROVE between fights…
I mean, probably if he decided to stay at 205lbs, Overeem would NEVER beat Badr Hari, Peters Aerts and steam-roll his oponennts like he is doing right now.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
Fedor doesn’t want to fight Overeem, his management stated because he’s a roided freak or whatever. Also Brett Rogers has been asking to fight Overeem for a looong time now.
People are foregetting Overeem has A. Gotten much bigger and stronger. B. Done pretty well in K1 he beat Badr Hari and is overall better now. C. HW’s are not as good skill wise as lower weight fighters, even Frank Mir has stated this.[/quote]
I still think Fedor would beat him though. I doubt him not wanting to fight him is due to the roids and probably more due to money issues (knowing Fedor’s management). Heck, he fought plenty of guys in Pride who were heavy juice users; didn’t seem to bother him then.[/quote]
Exatly Fedor has never been one to care about weight, Hung man Choi 350lb now granted Hung man is no where near as good a fighter as Overeem. I can’t see him dodging a fight with him.
I’m not sure if anybody else heard this but I thought Strikeforce: Heavy Artillery in may was going to feature Rogers vs Overeem as the Main even? II could be wrong tho. But I saw it a few places online? This will show us perhaps how Fedor would infact match up against Overeem.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
People are attacking Overeem saying he is weak, that he was a dog in PRIDE, but holy crap he was just a tiny kid on LHW, fighters IMPROVE between fights…
I mean, probably if he decided to stay at 205lbs, Overeem would NEVER beat Badr Hari, Peters Aerts and steam-roll his oponennts like he is doing right now.
[/quote]
I don’t think that people are claiming he’s weak (at least I’m certainly not). But, like you said, it’s only since his heavy PED use that he’s really become a force at HW. He would not be able to maintain that level of size and strength if he fought here in the US/UFC because, unlike Japan, there are actually rules against PED use and testing to go along with it.
Even with his new found size and strength, I think he’d have some serious problems with the huge guys at the top of the UFC’s HW division (Lesnar, Carwin, Mir, quite possibly Velasquez, maybe Dos Santos although I think that would be a good match-up style-wise).
PED means steroids? sorry the ignorance
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
People are attacking Overeem saying he is weak, that he was a dog in PRIDE, but holy crap he was just a tiny kid on LHW, fighters IMPROVE between fights…
I mean, probably if he decided to stay at 205lbs, Overeem would NEVER beat Badr Hari, Peters Aerts and steam-roll his oponennts like he is doing right now.
[/quote]
I don’t think that people are claiming he’s weak (at least I’m certainly not). But, like you said, it’s only since his heavy PED use that he’s really become a force at HW. He would not be able to maintain that level of size and strength if he fought here in the US/UFC because, unlike Japan, there are actually rules against PED use and testing to go along with it.
Even with his new found size and strength, I think he’d have some serious problems with the huge guys at the top of the UFC’s HW division (Lesnar, Carwin, Mir, quite possibly Velasquez, maybe Dos Santos although I think that would be a good match-up style-wise).[/quote]
You really think fighters aren’t juiced, they are they just don’t get caught.
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
People are attacking Overeem saying he is weak, that he was a dog in PRIDE, but holy crap he was just a tiny kid on LHW, fighters IMPROVE between fights…
I mean, probably if he decided to stay at 205lbs, Overeem would NEVER beat Badr Hari, Peters Aerts and steam-roll his oponennts like he is doing right now.
[/quote]
I don’t think that people are claiming he’s weak (at least I’m certainly not). But, like you said, it’s only since his heavy PED use that he’s really become a force at HW. He would not be able to maintain that level of size and strength if he fought here in the US/UFC because, unlike Japan, there are actually rules against PED use and testing to go along with it.
Even with his new found size and strength, I think he’d have some serious problems with the huge guys at the top of the UFC’s HW division (Lesnar, Carwin, Mir, quite possibly Velasquez, maybe Dos Santos although I think that would be a good match-up style-wise).[/quote]
You really think fighters aren’t juiced, they are they just don’t get caught.[/quote]
I’m not saying that some aren’t using (obviously some get caught, which probably means that many more are using, but just are smarter about cycling/masking agents).
But, in the states they at least have to cycle on and off of them. In Japan there are no rules prohibiting their use, so the fighters can basically stay on them continually, right up to (and probably right before) the fight.
Just a quick look at many of the former Pride stars’ physiques (and performances in many cases) when they came over to the UFC shows the difference in PED use. Just about all of them looked smaller and softer than they did during their Pride days, and all of them (except Anderson Silva and maybe Rampage) didn’t perform as well either.
And yes kaiser, PED means “performance enhancing drugs”, which anabolic steroids would fall under (along with HGH, heavy duty pain killers, blood doping agents, etc…).
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
People are attacking Overeem saying he is weak, that he was a dog in PRIDE, but holy crap he was just a tiny kid on LHW, fighters IMPROVE between fights…
I mean, probably if he decided to stay at 205lbs, Overeem would NEVER beat Badr Hari, Peters Aerts and steam-roll his oponennts like he is doing right now.
[/quote]
I don’t think that people are claiming he’s weak (at least I’m certainly not). But, like you said, it’s only since his heavy PED use that he’s really become a force at HW. He would not be able to maintain that level of size and strength if he fought here in the US/UFC because, unlike Japan, there are actually rules against PED use and testing to go along with it.
Even with his new found size and strength, I think he’d have some serious problems with the huge guys at the top of the UFC’s HW division (Lesnar, Carwin, Mir, quite possibly Velasquez, maybe Dos Santos although I think that would be a good match-up style-wise).[/quote]
You really think fighters aren’t juiced, they are they just don’t get caught.[/quote]
I’m not saying that some aren’t using (obviously some get caught, which probably means that many more are using, but just are smarter about cycling/masking agents).
But, in the states they at least have to cycle on and off of them. In Japan there are no rules prohibiting their use, so the fighters can basically stay on them continually, right up to (and probably right before) the fight.
Just a quick look at many of the former Pride stars’ physiques (and performances in many cases) when they came over to the UFC shows the difference in PED use. Just about all of them looked smaller and softer than they did during their Pride days, and all of them (except Anderson Silva and maybe Rampage) didn’t perform as well either.
And yes kaiser, PED means “performance enhancing drugs”, which anabolic steroids would fall under (along with HGH, heavy duty pain killers, blood doping agents, etc…).[/quote]
Agreed, just for another exaple, look at what Brock looked like in his WWE days, He was alot leaner and larger. I imagine his training back then was far less intense then a pre-fight camp. I’m not saying he isn’t still possibly using but he is not constantly using.
Josh Barnett Always comes to mind when this topic comes up
Ron Waterman, Phil Baroni, Lesnar and Barnett i’m sure used steroids, about everyone else i have my doubts.
[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Ron Waterman, Phil Baroni, Lesnar and Barnett i’m sure used steroids, about everyone else i have my doubts.[/quote]
I’d say that Randleman and Coleman did as well (same camp as Baroni), Silvia definitely did (got the HW belt stripped for it), Sherk definitely did (though he claims that he was unaware), Royce Gracie definitely did, I’m pretty certain (though have no proof) that Kimo Leopold did.
And those are just the guys who actually used banned substances that can be tested for. Let’s not forget that things like HGH are untestable and are probably rampant in combat sports but we have no way of knowing just how commonly they’re being used.
Stephan Bonnar, Marquardt, Sherk, Leben, Belfort, Bigfoot Silva, Jeff Monson all caught.
Holy fuck how could i forgot about all those dudes. Marquardt had an history on steroids? didn’t know that.
The thing i’m always curious, i read all places that people love to use HGH on MMA, but does it really help?
Come on Pesao Silva didn’t use steroids the guy has acromegalia, he would die real quick
For muscle growth it does and I’m pretty sure they don’t test for it.
Yeah, it is expensive as hell, i was reading about it and thought it was purely placebo and the only thing you would end up gaining was a bigger jaw and a distended gut