I've Got a Cool Doctor

I truly believe that test levels can be a make or break factor in succeeding in not just athletics, but life in general.

now wait a minute…
“can make or break”
i know this to an extent and have heard this before.

THINKING ALOUD:

  1. Higher than average native Test level is good coz it spikes not only
    a)ANABOLIC POTENTIAL but also
    b)MENTAL ACUITY and your ability to KEENLY FOCUS on tasks at hand.
  2. Higher than average metabolism level (BMR) is a good thing since it helps you
    a) BURN CALORIES EFFECTIVELY and
    b) ANYTHING else (help me out here)

    People high on test DO (?) also have high BMR levels. RIGHT?

    ISNT SIMPLY HAVING A HIGH BMR JUST AS GOOD AS HAVING A HIGH NATIVE TEST LEVEL?

    or
    DO THE NON-ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF TEST ON SPONTANEITY OR SAY QUICK DECISION MAKING (which one agrees can be profound) DIFFER FROM THOSE OF A HIGH BMR?

Alrrright.
Here precipitates my question
What ELSE does a HIGH NATIVE TEST LEVEL do to you that a HIGH BMR can’t?

May be we need to post on a sep thread to get more folks to brain storm this.

I have seen some contemplate TRT for life just due to the “make or break” factor of test. I think this merits creating a sep thread

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
boroughbred wrote:
Here precipitates my question
What ELSE does a HIGH NATIVE TEST LEVEL do to you that a HIGH BMR can’t?

May be we need to post on a sep thread to get more folks to brain storm this.

I don’t think that having a high BMR is equitable with having high test. For example, someone who is a type A, stresshead person will likely have a high BMR, but will also probably have high cortisol levels.

Just because you have a high BMR, and are burning calories like a mofo, does not mean that you have mental clarity and strength of belief, or that you are the type of person who ‘leads from the front’ etc.

These are just my thoughts on this morning where I have been up all night with diarhea, so take 'em for what they are worth…

I have seen some contemplate TRT for life just due to the “make or break” factor of test. I think this merits creating a sep thread

And in fact this is precisely why I put myself on TRT. Before I discovered test, I was an ‘also ran’. Test made me into that kind of person who can choose his own path, has energy, focus and drive. Is confident, kind and helpful, not wrapped up (too much) in his own problems. I can study effectively, train effectively, and live effectively…

Test is the best damn drug I have ever tried.

Sorry if that sounds a little melodramatic, lol.

bushy[/quote]

You are 100 percent correct in everything in above post.

And yes, testosterone is the greatest recreational drug ever.

not to hijack…

but disinterested passerbys who glimpse here and there on this site (but never post) can take note of this reaffirming article on test from the NYT

see we aint shooting shit here. test is real!

[quote]boroughbred wrote:

THINKING ALOUD:

  1. Higher than average native Test level is good coz it spikes not only
    a)ANABOLIC POTENTIAL but also
    b)MENTAL ACUITY and your ability to KEENLY FOCUS on tasks at hand.
  2. Higher than average metabolism level (BMR) is a good thing since it helps you
    a) BURN CALORIES EFFECTIVELY and
    b) ANYTHING else (help me out here)

    People high on test DO (?) also have high BMR levels. RIGHT?

    ISNT SIMPLY HAVING A HIGH BMR JUST AS GOOD AS HAVING A HIGH NATIVE TEST LEVEL?

    or
    DO THE NON-ANABOLIC EFFECTS OF TEST ON SPONTANEITY OR SAY QUICK DECISION MAKING (which one agrees can be profound) DIFFER FROM THOSE OF A HIGH BMR?

Alrrright.
Here precipitates my question
What ELSE does a HIGH NATIVE TEST LEVEL do to you that a HIGH BMR can’t?

May be we need to post on a sep thread to get more folks to brain storm this.

I have seen some contemplate TRT for life just due to the “make or break” factor of test. I think this merits creating a sep thread[/quote]

a. YES
b. YES

a. YES
b. YES

Having a high BMR is nowhere near as good as having high test. Test does a whole lot more wonderfull things. Muscle recovery/repair, mood enhancing, libido, memory, slows the aging process, just a few examples, I could go on and on here.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
And yes, testosterone is the greatest recreational drug ever.

Hmmm, I’m hesitant to call it a ‘recreational drug’, because this detracts from its very real, life enhancing properties, and lumps it together (to the uneducated, ie the general public) with pot, coke etc.

I know what you are saying - test makes me feel great (as does pot, lol), but it’s not ‘recreational’ as such. Similar to the way that antidepressants make the user feel better, but they are not ‘recreational’.

bushy[/quote]

I hear ya. I stole that tag from TC :wink:

Ok, had blood work done this morning, about 1 hour after I woke up. It went smooth as pie. Im not to keen on needles and such(no tats/piercings for me) but everything was cool. They took like 5 vials of blood, and the nurse seemed very professional and quick. I was in and out of the clinic in less than 10 minutes, no joke.

7 days for results. Im anxiously waiting. Who knows how good(or bad) it will be?

Alright, results in. I just got off the phone with the doctor. I am going to pick up a copy of my exact bloodwork and post it up here tomorrow, but until then, he told me alot over the phone and i tried to write down as much as I could in the meantime.

Basically, all of my thyroid, liver, cholesterol functions were normal.

My Glucose was 66.

My DHEA was high. 520. He actually asked me if i was on DHEA, and I started laughing. He then asked me if I ever had acne problems as a teenager. Dam this guy is smart. He said that my DHEA levels were probably even higher then and could have been part of the problem.

Estradoil - 47. (10 -50) He said thats boderline. Goddammit :frowning:

Total Test - 490 (300 - 1200)

Free Test - 18.9

Growth Hormone - Here is the tricky thing. He said my growth hormone was low for someone my age (WTF?) It was 176 I believe was the number.

He is also concerned about my estradoil. He recommended a anti-estrogen as well. Can’t remember the name. Again this was a long conversation, and he called me out of the blue today on a busy day for me.

So, I guess I have alot of hard, important decisions to mull over. I will be posting up my exact blood work in complete detail tomorrow.

Until then, EVERYONE chime in, Cy if you could that would be great :wink:

And yes, I will be giving this guys name out with his permission IN THE FUTURE for those interested.

BTW, I want to give out a huge, huge thanks to TC for giving me the idea to seek out a doctor specializing in anti-aging and alternative therapy. Probably saved me tons of time, money and headaches.

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Alright, results in. I just got off the phone with the doctor. I am going to pick up a copy of my exact bloodwork and post it up here tomorrow, but until then, he told me alot over the phone and i tried to write down as much as I could in the meantime.

Basically, all of my thyroid, liver, cholesterol functions were normal.

My Glucose was 66.

My DHEA was high. 520. He actually asked me if i was on DHEA, and I started laughing. He then asked me if I ever had acne problems as a teenager. Dam this guy is smart. He said that my DHEA levels were probably even higher then and could have been part of the problem.

Estradoil - 47. (10 -50) He said thats boderline. Goddammit :frowning:

Total Test - 490 (300 - 1200)

Free Test - 18.9

Growth Hormone - Here is the tricky thing. He said my growth hormone was low for someone my age (WTF?) It was 176 I believe was the number.

Anyways, the good news. I did my homework and its paying off now. This doctor is the man. He’s like “I would like to see your test levels between 900 - 1100. Test enanthanate once weekly and hCG twice weekly would be the way to go.”

He is also concerned about my estradoil. He recommended a anti-estrogen as well. Can’t remember the name. Again this was a long conversation, and he called me out of the blue today on a busy day for me.

So, I guess I have alot of hard, important decisions to mull over. I will be posting up my exact blood work in complete detail tomorrow.

Until then, EVERYONE chime in, Cy if you could that would be great :wink:

[/quote]

Excellent.

Estradiol is elevated. Optimal is between 10 and 30. It is also important to control to keep SHBG down, thus keeping free test up.

A good AI is arimidex at .25mg e3d or ,if still elevated, .50 eod. Keeping estadial in this range of 10-30 will keep sex drive and mood in check. Too low and to high are not good.

That is about the same range my doc wants me in. Currently trying to get to that level with HCG monotherapy at 350iu EOD (soon to be on andorgel or test e).

I know some people dont like Dr. John Crisler, but you should check his website out and read TRT, a recipe for success, and HCG update. A lot of docs use that same dosing schedule.

Great find on the doctor

[quote]keaster wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Alright, results in. I just got off the phone with the doctor. I am going to pick up a copy of my exact bloodwork and post it up here tomorrow, but until then, he told me alot over the phone and i tried to write down as much as I could in the meantime.

Basically, all of my thyroid, liver, cholesterol functions were normal.

My Glucose was 66.

My DHEA was high. 520. He actually asked me if i was on DHEA, and I started laughing. He then asked me if I ever had acne problems as a teenager. Dam this guy is smart. He said that my DHEA levels were probably even higher then and could have been part of the problem.

Estradoil - 47. (10 -50) He said thats boderline. Goddammit :frowning:

Total Test - 490 (300 - 1200)

Free Test - 18.9

Growth Hormone - Here is the tricky thing. He said my growth hormone was low for someone my age (WTF?) It was 176 I believe was the number.

Anyways, the good news. I did my homework and its paying off now. This doctor is the man. He’s like “I would like to see your test levels between 900 - 1100. Test enanthanate once weekly and hCG twice weekly would be the way to go.”

He is also concerned about my estradoil. He recommended a anti-estrogen as well. Can’t remember the name. Again this was a long conversation, and he called me out of the blue today on a busy day for me.

So, I guess I have alot of hard, important decisions to mull over. I will be posting up my exact blood work in complete detail tomorrow.

Until then, EVERYONE chime in, Cy if you could that would be great :wink:

Excellent.

Estradiol is elevated. Optimal is between 10 and 30. It is also important to control to keep SHBG down, thus keeping free test up.

A good AI is arimidex at .25mg e3d or ,if still elevated, .50 eod. Keeping estadial in this range of 10-30 will keep sex drive and mood in check. Too low and to high are not good.

That is about the same range my doc wants me in. Currently trying to get to that level with HCG monotherapy at 350iu EOD (soon to be on andorgel or test e).

I know some people dont like Dr. John Crisler, but you should check his website out and read TRT, a recipe for success, and HCG update. A lot of docs use that same dosing schedule.

Great find on the doctor

[/quote]

Thanks for the response and yea, this guy is the shit.

He is willing to get me started now. I told him I needed a few days to mull it over.

He basically wants me on
Test Enanthanate
Anti E (forgot which one, its a tablet taken once a day)
hcG

He mentioned growth hormone as well. Im a little hesitant about that. He said it was low for a 27 year old, about HALF what he would like it to be. Test I can handle. Growth hormone kinda scares me.

As far as Test goes, Im thinking once weekly 100mg. Any opinions?

The one thing Im trying to figure out is how in the hell do I have elevated estrogen? I live a dam clean lifestyle, exercise like a motherfucker, don’t drink or use drugs. This is what i mean when I talk about xenoestrogens. If I can have an elevated estrogen, anyone can(and probably does)

Thanks. Any other ideas people?

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
keaster wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Alright, results in. I just got off the phone with the doctor. I am going to pick up a copy of my exact bloodwork and post it up here tomorrow, but until then, he told me alot over the phone and i tried to write down as much as I could in the meantime.

Basically, all of my thyroid, liver, cholesterol functions were normal.

My Glucose was 66.

My DHEA was high. 520. He actually asked me if i was on DHEA, and I started laughing. He then asked me if I ever had acne problems as a teenager. Dam this guy is smart. He said that my DHEA levels were probably even higher then and could have been part of the problem.

Estradoil - 47. (10 -50) He said thats boderline. Goddammit :frowning:

Total Test - 490 (300 - 1200)

Free Test - 18.9

Growth Hormone - Here is the tricky thing. He said my growth hormone was low for someone my age (WTF?) It was 176 I believe was the number.

Anyways, the good news. I did my homework and its paying off now. This doctor is the man. He’s like “I would like to see your test levels between 900 - 1100. Test enanthanate once weekly and hCG twice weekly would be the way to go.”

He is also concerned about my estradoil. He recommended a anti-estrogen as well. Can’t remember the name. Again this was a long conversation, and he called me out of the blue today on a busy day for me.

So, I guess I have alot of hard, important decisions to mull over. I will be posting up my exact blood work in complete detail tomorrow.

Until then, EVERYONE chime in, Cy if you could that would be great :wink:

Excellent.

Estradiol is elevated. Optimal is between 10 and 30. It is also important to control to keep SHBG down, thus keeping free test up.

A good AI is arimidex at .25mg e3d or ,if still elevated, .50 eod. Keeping estadial in this range of 10-30 will keep sex drive and mood in check. Too low and to high are not good.

That is about the same range my doc wants me in. Currently trying to get to that level with HCG monotherapy at 350iu EOD (soon to be on andorgel or test e).

I know some people dont like Dr. John Crisler, but you should check his website out and read TRT, a recipe for success, and HCG update. A lot of docs use that same dosing schedule.

Great find on the doctor

Thanks for the response and yea, this guy is the shit.

He is willing to get me started now. I told him I needed a few days to mull it over.

He basically wants me on
Test Enanthanate
Anti E (forgot which one, its a tablet taken once a day)
hcG

He mentioned growth hormone as well. Im a little hesitant about that. He said it was low for a 27 year old, about HALF what he would like it to be. Test I can handle. Growth hormone kinda scares me.

As far as Test goes, Im thinking once weekly 100mg. Any opinions?

This guy is extremely open minded. He basically said I can go whatever route I want and adjust the dosages to what i want, as long as Im within the “safe” ranges. He said weekly or bi weekly injections, whatever I want. He mentioned anrogel and other forms, whatever I wanted.

The one thing Im trying to figure out is how in the hell do I have elevated estrogen? I live a dam clean lifestyle, exercise like a motherfucker, don’t drink or use drugs. This is what i mean when I talk about xenoestrogens. If I can have an elevated estrogen, anyone can(and probably does)

Thanks. Any other ideas people? [/quote]

Most docs start guys on Androgel. My doc lets you have a choice between androgel, Test e, Andriol, and HCG monotherapy for those under 25.

The typical replacement dose is 100 mg a week. Most will split this dose up to two times a week. Some guys are even starting to do their injections Subq, which is shit imo. Remeber the dosage will react differently in different people.

The typical dosage to get a person to the top range of normal is 200-250mg a week.

The important thing to do would be to look at test results after the alloted time on the baseline dosage.

I wouldnt start with GH yet. Trying to get your T levels to optimal is hard enough without jumping on GH. Plus its expensive.

Most HRT docs wont give an anit e until follow up labs are run for the baseline testosterone dosage. Many say that they see reductions in estrogen with therapy. Also, most docs will not give HCG until everything os sorted put.

I would hold off on the HCG for awhile until you get everything stable. HCG is difficult to get right. It increases aromatization to a significant degree.
It also makes your balls massive (I know it did for me).

Try to get arimidex as a AI. Getting estrogen right is important. To high and you will be depressed and have trouble getting an erection. You will also bloat up, get gyno, have prostate issues etc. To low and you will feel lethargic and you wont be able to get an erection (sometimes even cialis/viagra wont help)

Make sure you keep us updated.

One more thing were you having symptoms of low t?

Im not going the androgel route if i decide on TRT. Ive heard there is a greater chance of aromatization and DHT issues with it. Plus, I see no other reason why. Im tuff, I can handle injections.

I don’t think Im gonna mess with GH. Fuck that. At least not now. Its not that expensive with insurance. He said 20 - 40 bucks per month tops.

My doc wants me on hCG right away and an anti e. My estrogen is already elevated at 47 (10 - 50). He said that even if I dont go the TRT route, its only a matter of time before I have issues with estrogen.

And I tested that high with a very clean diet, solid exercise routine and I was on REZ-V, not to mention I only carry around 8% BF. I shiver to think what it was a few years ago when I drank alot, ate junk food and had no idea what T-Nation was.

Its no wonder I always felt so GREAT when on M (biotests anti-E Vitex formula). Now I know why.

Symptoms of low t? Yea, I think Im starting to. My workout recovery ability is shit. It has definitely gone downhill in the last 7 years.

I find myself nowhere near as mentally sharp as I used to be. Sometimes Im just foggy and have trouble remembering things, and Im not as an aggressive, assertive person as I used to be.

I would say that my libido has slightly tailored off since I was 20. I never get morning wood EVER, unless Im on TRIBEX or REZ-V.

I would say that college damaged me in a permanent way. 4 years of heavy drinking, bad food, poor sleep and just an all around unhealthy lifestyle took its toll. It wasn’t always like this though. I was an all star athlete in highschool and a BJJ champion as well, not to mention the fastest 40yard and 100m kid in my school(despite being 5’7 and white, LOL)

We’ll see. Im still mulling things over and I haven’t made any decisions yet.

[quote]keaster wrote:

Most docs start guys on Androgel. My doc lets you have a choice between androgel, Test e, Andriol, and HCG monotherapy for those under 25.

The typical replacement dose is 100 mg a week. Most will split this dose up to two times a week. Some guys are even starting to do their injections Subq, which is shit imo. Remeber the dosage will react differently in different people.

The typical dosage to get a person to the top range of normal is 200-250mg a week.

The important thing to do would be to look at test results after the alloted time on the baseline dosage.

I wouldnt start with GH yet. Trying to get your T levels to optimal is hard enough without jumping on GH. Plus its expensive.

Most HRT docs wont give an anit e until follow up labs are run for the baseline testosterone dosage. Many say that they see reductions in estrogen with therapy. Also, most docs will not give HCG until everything os sorted put.

I would hold off on the HCG for awhile until you get everything stable. HCG is difficult to get right. It increases aromatization to a significant degree.
It also makes your balls massive (I know it did for me).

Try to get arimidex as a AI. Getting estrogen right is important. To high and you will be depressed and have trouble getting an erection. You will also bloat up, get gyno, have prostate issues etc. To low and you will feel lethargic and you wont be able to get an erection (sometimes even cialis/viagra wont help)

Make sure you keep us updated.

One more thing were you having symptoms of low t?

[/quote]

Ok so my insurance cleared threw. Basically I can get
hCG
Growth Hormone
Test Enanthanate
Anti E

All of them together is gonna run me about 1000 bucks for a 6 month supply, or about 166 bucks per month, including doctor fees, blood tests, etc. Ouch! Does this sound normal?

I still want to give Alpha Male a try first though for 8 weeks and get retested and see what kind of a bump I get. I should be ordering some up this friday and be on by wensday.

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Ok so my insurance cleared threw. Basically I can get
hCG
Growth Hormone
Test Enanthanate
Anti E

All of them together is gonna run me about 1000 bucks for a 6 month supply, or about 166 bucks per month, including doctor fees, blood tests, etc. Ouch! Does this sound normal?

I still want to give Alpha Male a try first though for 8 weeks and get retested and see what kind of a bump I get. I should be ordering some up this friday and be on by wensday.[/quote]

Is this after the insurance co-pay. The only thing that is expensive is the anti e (arimidex is expensive). And, didint you say you would do without the GH.

If you really have the symptoms of low t than Alpha Male isnt gonna do it for you. Yes its a great product, but it isnt as strong as a perscription drug.

If your just looking for a boost and arent really feeling the symptoms then go for Alpha Male.

[quote]T-Nick wrote:
Ok so my insurance cleared threw. Basically I can get
hCG
Growth Hormone
Test Enanthanate
Anti E

All of them together is gonna run me about 1000 bucks for a 6 month supply, or about 166 bucks per month, including doctor fees, blood tests, etc. Ouch! Does this sound normal?

I still want to give Alpha Male a try first though for 8 weeks and get retested and see what kind of a bump I get. I should be ordering some up this friday and be on by wensday.[/quote]

What kind of quantities are they going to give you? For example, 200 mgs of test per week? The reason I ask is from what I understand the amounts are so little with these guys that its not enough to see true results.

JW

[quote]keaster wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Ok so my insurance cleared threw. Basically I can get
hCG
Growth Hormone
Test Enanthanate
Anti E

All of them together is gonna run me about 1000 bucks for a 6 month supply, or about 166 bucks per month, including doctor fees, blood tests, etc. Ouch! Does this sound normal?

I still want to give Alpha Male a try first though for 8 weeks and get retested and see what kind of a bump I get. I should be ordering some up this friday and be on by wensday.

Is this after the insurance co-pay. The only thing that is expensive is the anti e (arimidex is expensive). And, didint you say you would do without the GH.

If you really have the symptoms of low t than Alpha Male isnt gonna do it for you. Yes its a great product, but it isnt as strong as a perscription drug.

If your just looking for a boost and arent really feeling the symptoms then go for Alpha Male.

[/quote]

Im not messing with GH, no friggen way. Its mad expensive and honestly I dont need it, at least not now.

[quote]JWpushheavy wrote:
T-Nick wrote:
Ok so my insurance cleared threw. Basically I can get
hCG
Growth Hormone
Test Enanthanate
Anti E

All of them together is gonna run me about 1000 bucks for a 6 month supply, or about 166 bucks per month, including doctor fees, blood tests, etc. Ouch! Does this sound normal?

I still want to give Alpha Male a try first though for 8 weeks and get retested and see what kind of a bump I get. I should be ordering some up this friday and be on by wensday.

What kind of quantities are they going to give you? For example, 200 mgs of test per week? The reason I ask is from what I understand the amounts are so little with these guys that its not enough to see true results.

JW

[/quote]

The actual costs of test are covered under insurance and costs are neglible. The real prices come with blood tests and doctor visits.

OK. I know this. So what are you trying to accomplish?