T Nation

I've Given Up Trying To Be Big

HST was a good program, but lifting the same muscle groups every other day messed with my wrists and shoulders quite a bit. I developed overuse injuries. So next I did MAX-OT. Gained some strength for about 8 weeks but not too much size, probably because low-volume, high-intensity plans have never been very successful for me. Since then I have been training as follows:

Sat: Quads, low back, inner abs
Sun: Thib’s ab program
Mon: Off
Tues: Back, calves, obliques
Wed: Chest, rotator cuffs, tris
Thurs: Shoulders, biceps, hamstrings
Fri: Off

And as I wrote, I decreased meal count and increased calorie intake. The results: I have gained four pounds in the last six months, going from 165 to 169. My LBM has gone from 145.2 pounds to 147 pounds. So a couple pounds of muscle. Not too shabby. Remember, I never said I was giving up.

[quote]Rocket Lax wrote:

What was the outcome of this?:

HST was a good program, but lifting the same muscle groups every other day messed with my wrists and shoulders quite a bit. I developed overuse injuries. So next I did MAX-OT. Gained some strength for about 8 weeks but not too much size, probably because low-volume, high-intensity plans have never been very successful for me. Since then I have been training as follows:

Sat: Quads, low back, inner abs
Sun: Thib’s ab program
Mon: Off
Tues: Back, calves, obliques
Wed: Chest, rotator cuffs, tris
Thurs: Shoulders, biceps, hamstrings
Fri: Off

And as I wrote, I decreased meal count and increased calorie intake. The results: I have gained four pounds in the last six months, going from 165 to 169. My LBM has gone from 145.2 pounds to 147 pounds. So a couple pounds of muscle. Not too shabby. Remember, I never said I was giving up.[/quote]

What has always stood out to me is the number of injuries you seem to have. I have been lifting for years using more weight than what you have listed and have never had to deal with this. It leads me to believe that there is something wrong with your technique or the way you are approaching training. Injuries aren’t normal. While everyone will probably have one over years of training, especially if they play sports, the sheer number you seem to have would make you a walking emergency room case if you actually played any professional sports.

How old are you?

Prof X,

I am 31. I have been training seriously since I was 18. I started deadlifting and squatting almost immediately. I learned the Olympic lifts about 8 years later.

I played club-level lacrosse in high school and college, and in a men’s league for a few years after that.

Steve-O, sorry for the hijack.

[quote]Rocket Lax wrote:
Prof X,

I am 31. I have been training seriously since I was 18. I started deadlifting and squatting almost immediately. I learned the Olympic lifts about 8 years later.

I played club-level lacrosse in high school and college, and in a men’s league for a few years after that.

Steve-O, sorry for the hijack.[/quote]

Then obviously you must be doing everything right.

[quote]michael2507 wrote:
I don’t quite understand the recurring opinion on some of these threads that eating 4000 kcals (or 200-300 g of protein) a day is such an issue. With appropriate planning and preperation, everybody should be capable of meeting the required caloric intake. [/quote]

Michael2507,
The concern isn’t about getting the calories in. My concern is whether following a 4,000 cal/day diet for 15 years is really healthy. JB himself has ventured that long-term, high-calorie diets may (or may not) affect insulin resistance.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Then obviously you must be doing everything right.[/quote]

I was just trying to give you the info you asked for. I appreciate any advice you want to give. I am most certainly doing something wrong, but I can’t figure out what it is.

[quote]Rocket Lax wrote:
michael2507 wrote:
I don’t quite understand the recurring opinion on some of these threads that eating 4000 kcals (or 200-300 g of protein) a day is such an issue. With appropriate planning and preperation, everybody should be capable of meeting the required caloric intake.

Michael2507,
The concern isn’t about getting the calories in. My concern is whether following a 4,000 cal/day diet for 15 years is really healthy. JB himself has ventured that long-term, high-calorie diets may (or may not) affect insulin resistance.[/quote]

In the given context, I guess it would be reasonable to define “high-calorie” in relation to a person’s lean body mass and activity level. At 165 pounds and without a high level of physical exertion on a daily basis, this probably would be a rather high intake. With regard to the goal at hand, I don’t see a reason why a person should maintain a diet scheme focused on bulking incessantly for more than a decade, though.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

I’m new to “posting” here on T-Nation although I have been lurking for a while and trying to get the feel of the forum. So here goes.

It is possible to get more muscle, simply as the others have said, eat quality calories and lift heavier in progression (Although we know there is more to it than that). You have to have a sound program, nutrition wise and choice of exercises. having said that (Which most of you have already) You have to decide what is important to you, I feel like you are asking us to acknowledge your alternative lifestyle, not training anymore or better yet keeping at the plateau you have reached.

You can still have fun, everything in moderation, however consider how the lifestyle you choose will impact you physically, having a beer gut, staying up until the early morning and eating fast food for example does not equate quality of life to me.

I have been training longer than you, and that does not mean I know more than you, the fun is in the journey.

Choose your path wisely, good friends will understand.

Sorry for the long post.

Manor

That’s a strange split man. Shoulders,Biceps, and Hamstrings on the same day?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
While everyone may not have the genes to build a HUGE amount of muscle mass, there are about as many people who can build the minimum as there are Ronnie Colemans.[/quote]

I would definitely agree with that.

The real issue here that I think Stevo is getting at is the fact that you have to modify your lifestyle to get maximum results. So doing things like extra aerobic activity, or recreational activities like snowboarding, hiking, or whatever do have a negative effect on gaining maximum size. So the decision to drop some of these activities you like to get maximum results is a trade-off.

So at some point the return on investment is not worth the gain.

At one time in my life I did cut out all activities that might drain my ability to gain muscle, but in the last few years have come to a better balance of muscle gaining goals and doing the activities I like.

[quote]Rocket Lax wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Then obviously you must be doing everything right.

I was just trying to give you the info you asked for. I appreciate any advice you want to give. I am most certainly doing something wrong, but I can’t figure out what it is. [/quote]

Are you still playing Lax?

If so what are your seasons like?

When I was playing 3 seasons of rugby a year I would put on weight in the winter and have the hardest time keeping it on through the year.

It is hard to keep training heavy when you are banged up all the time.

If you are not still playing then you have absolutely no excuse! :slight_smile:

The first time I ever touched a weight, I was 15, 6’4", and ~150 lbs (under 5% bodyfat). I was so skinny it hurt. I made a friend who had some weights in his basement & he put some pounds on me. He moved away, and I quit lifting, but in college started again. As a freshman, lifting like a mad dog, eating everything that I could outrun, I got upto 210 at 6’6". After reading stevo’s initial post, I thought I could relate–training hard, eating hard & not making gains. I spent several years doing M&F workouts & stagnating, burning out, getting hurt. After leaving the free health club called college I went 5 years without lifting. When I returned, I quickly found the M&F workouts brought me upto a certain level & then I’d stagnate, burnout, get hurt. I then decided to give powerlifting workouts a try (multiple sets of 1 to 5 reps). I also gave up on getting big, and shifted to getting strong. I’m still 6’6", but now weigh 265 (18%bodyfat). I’ve never been this big before, and never been this strong.

Now I’m starting to think I should do my first ever try-to-get lean diet. This is where stevo lost me. If your tall & skinny, screw diet, screw calorie counting-- EAT! Don’t turn down the beer with your buddies until you think you have something to cut down to. Sure, I avoid straight sugar–If given the choice of desert or more dinner, I chose the dinner–but I eat 6 real meals a day (who knows how many calories that is.) I bring my food to work in a grocery bag. When you’re tall & lean you have to eat big to get big!

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Are you still playing Lax?

If so what are your seasons like?

When I was playing 3 seasons of rugby a year I would put on weight in the winter and have the hardest time keeping it on through the year.

It is hard to keep training heavy when you are banged up all the time.

If you are not still playing then you have absolutely no excuse! :)[/quote]

I stopped playing lax about one year ago. Before that I had been playing year round for three years. (Spring, summer, fall and two season of indoor in the winter.) One reason I quit was because I knew that lax was holding me back in the gym. I was just too beat down all the time to ever really recover. You are right – no excuses.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
The real issue here that I think Stevo is getting at is the fact that you have to modify your lifestyle to get maximum results. So doing things like extra aerobic activity, or recreational activities like snowboarding, hiking, or whatever do have a negative effect on gaining maximum size. So the decision to drop some of these activities you like to get maximum results is a trade-off.

So at some point the return on investment is not worth the gain.

At one time in my life I did cut out all activities that might drain my ability to gain muscle, but in the last few years have come to a better balance of muscle gaining goals and doing the activities I like.
[/quote]

Well-put.

I kinda misread it but I was talking about CS. 13% bodyfat at 260-265 is pretty goddam impressive for no juice though.

[quote]WideGuy wrote:
I kinda misread it but I was talking about CS. 13% bodyfat at 260-265 is pretty goddam impressive for no juice though.[/quote]

thanks man i appreciate it. i know it’s probably hard to believe but i was up around 300, even a little over sometimes so i have cut about 40lbs since then. that was about six months ago. i would like to try to get to about 250-255 and get in single digit BF but i don’t know. the dieting and cardio don’t bother me but i HATE losing strength. that just about kills me. i think i’m going to switch over to the anabolic diet here before too long. i’ve heard so many good things about it i don’t know how you could go wrong. plus you can eat bacon. that excites me. hopefully that could help me maintain my strength while cutting a little more weight. i appreciate the compliment. sorry for the hi jack.

Stevo,

you cant start a thread like this and expect to not get advice.

if you were wiling to seek advice you’d realize that you’re not at your genetic limit and that gains would not be as difficult as you think. the info that you have given us suggests so.

now, you can either think you know what’s up and give up, or you can realize that you may not know what’s up and figure out why.

Bingo Lorisco you hit it on the head. I should have got you to write my post.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
The real issue here that I think Stevo is getting at is the fact that you have to modify your lifestyle to get maximum results. So doing things like extra aerobic activity, or recreational activities like snowboarding, hiking, or whatever do have a negative effect on gaining maximum size. So the decision to drop some of these activities you like to get maximum results is a trade-off.

So at some point the return on investment is not worth the gain.

At one time in my life I did cut out all activities that might drain my ability to gain muscle, but in the last few years have come to a better balance of muscle gaining goals and doing the activities I like.
[/quote]

[quote]Stevo wrote:
Bingo Lorisco you hit it on the head. I should have got you to write my post.
[/quote]

I guess I can forgive you, it just pains me to hear someone losing the fire. This post was like a “man down” signal, so my reaction was to try to relight the fire. I understand that you want to enjoy other aspects of your life however.