T Nation

It's Who You Listen To

By the way, i’m gonna keep this on the front page for at least a week, even if I have to bump it myself ha. I think it’s important that it be seen by as many people as possible.

[quote]ignignokt wrote:
Their advice could save someone months (or even years) of wasted time and money.

EDIT: “Kettle bells HAHAHAA!!”

That was gold.[/quote]

Awesome video clip from men who walk the talk.

There’s a group of 4 people on my work campus that perform what I dubbed the “Kettle Ball Ballet” in our gym. They have a stopwatch to time their synchronized routines - seriously.

Oh, I forgot to mention that not a single one of them is even remotely in shape.

It’s difficult not to laugh.

Most of if not all the videos, especially the interviews, put out by Elitefts are quality.

[quote]dre wrote:
Professor X wrote:
dre wrote:
Goodfellow wrote:
Aggro wrote:
Professor X wrote:

It means follow the BASICS that they followed because that is what produces results.

Just to expand on this a bit. Matt says “do what they did” not “do what they do” If someone is progressed to point R in their training someone starting at point A would be foolish to jump to that point. Yet how many people do you see in the gym carrying around an issue of MD with Insert Pro’s name here chest routine?

This video and Dave’s indicators video should be required viewing for anyone asking the bulk or cut question.

That is why Prof’s thread “Professor X: A request” is so damn valuable. Because he mentions what he has been doing since point A.

Would be cool if I could find some material on what the top BB’rs today used to do earlier in their career also.

Ate a lot of food and lifted heavy shit?

But…did they rest for exactly 120 seconds between sets or exactly 3 minutes? This is clearly the most important aspect of getting huge…stopwatches.

…and carrots.

DAMN IT!

runs to buy carrots[/quote]

better hurry up! i already got my giant bag of carrots from costco! im gonna get GINORMOUS!

This is dumb. It’s common sense to listen to big guys on how to get big. Why would you let the skinny ass fratboy trainer tell you how to lift when you’re bigger than him?

I only really listen to Prof X, Gerdy, CC, Beauer, and a few others I can’t recall. I’ll make a thread asking for advice sometimes and get advice from guys that have been lifting for 5 months. I just PM Gerdy now and don’t bother posting too much.

Why don’t people experiment a bit and make their own routines instead of trying to do cookicutter shit all the time? It really does work better.

All music to my ears.

Watch for the bar speed!..

[quote]ignignokt wrote:

EDIT: “Kettle bells HAHAHAA!!”

That was gold.[/quote]

The thing that many people may have missed is that Marc, the guy that said “Kettle bells” is a Pavel certified instructor. He uses them as a recovery and conditioning tool I believe.

Not disagreeing with what you guys are saying, just thought it was a funny side story.

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
ignignokt wrote:

EDIT: “Kettle bells HAHAHAA!!”

That was gold.

The thing that many people may have missed is that Marc, the guy that said “Kettle bells” is a Pavel certified instructor. He uses them as a recovery and conditioning tool I believe.

Not disagreeing with what you guys are saying, just thought it was a funny side story.

[/quote]

I doubt he’s as eccentric as Pavel about it though…but yeah I see the point you’re trying to make

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
ignignokt wrote:

EDIT: “Kettle bells HAHAHAA!!”

That was gold.

The thing that many people may have missed is that Marc, the guy that said “Kettle bells” is a Pavel certified instructor. He uses them as a recovery and conditioning tool I believe.

Not disagreeing with what you guys are saying, just thought it was a funny side story.

I doubt he’s as eccentric as Pavel about it though…but yeah I see the point you’re trying to make[/quote]

Just about anything can be an effective tool given the right circumstances. It’s the people who take it to the extremes or try to argue that there is no other way than the one they promote who are the ones giving things like kettle bells a bad name.

Matt wasn’t suggesting that kettle bells are a useless piece of equipment, just commenting on how fads/gimmicks are common in the fitness industry and giving some examples of recent ones.

[quote]Artem wrote:

Why don’t people experiment a bit and make their own routines instead of trying to do cookicutter shit all the time? It really does work better.[/quote]

That’s how I learned all my most valuable lessons in the gym. Only problem is it’s hard work that requires actually educating yourself and THINKING for yourself.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
I agree for the most part but there are top coaches who have 100’s of clients who say most people definitely shouldn’t train like the pro’s because they obviously can’t handle the same volume and/or frequency that a genetic freak on steroids can. The coaches I’m talking about are also really strong, experienced, big, etc…

One thing with this line of thinking bothers me…for one, why would anyone look at the routine that Ronnie Coleman is doing while weighing 300lbs in the off season and assume they need to do exactly the same?

[/quote]

They shouldn’t…but they do. That’s part of the problem. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen/talked to people who do that. It makes me want to facepalm them with a 45 lb plate. But unfortunately, it’s true and that’s why you have people saying “don’t train like the pro’s do”. They don’t (usually) mean “don’t do basic movements”, they are attempting to speak directly to the dumbasses that try to copy the routines.

Both parties get misunderstood on this point, but I see where both sides are coming from.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
ignignokt wrote:

EDIT: “Kettle bells HAHAHAA!!”

That was gold.

The thing that many people may have missed is that Marc, the guy that said “Kettle bells” is a Pavel certified instructor. He uses them as a recovery and conditioning tool I believe.

Not disagreeing with what you guys are saying, just thought it was a funny side story.

I doubt he’s as eccentric as Pavel about it though…but yeah I see the point you’re trying to make

Just about anything can be an effective tool given the right circumstances. It’s the people who take it to the extremes or try to argue that there is no other way than the one they promote who are the ones giving things like kettle bells a bad name.

Matt wasn’t suggesting that kettle bells are a useless piece of equipment, just commenting on how fads/gimmicks are common in the fitness industry and giving some examples of recent ones.[/quote]

Absolutely, that’s why I mentioned some of his uses for them. I doubt he’s using them as his main implement to get his squat back over a grand!

i listen to C_C, thats it.

and even then, i listen to the great philosophy that you need to train for your body, no two people are the same, do what works for you and what you feel is right.

so even if someone says i should X amount of reps of G amount of sets i may do a few extra of either just because i feel ready for it.

i stopped reading articles on this site 6 months ago. logically, you cant spit out some new groundbreaking training method every week or whatever.

even the owner of Metroflex was interviewed and saying how Branch n Ronnie trained with pretty basic concepts, just heavy weight and lots of intensity.

id rather listen to what a pro BBer has to say about being a pro BBer than a guy who read a couple textbooks about it.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
I agree for the most part but there are top coaches who have 100’s of clients who say most people definitely shouldn’t train like the pro’s because they obviously can’t handle the same volume and/or frequency that a genetic freak on steroids can. The coaches I’m talking about are also really strong, experienced, big, etc…

One thing with this line of thinking bothers me…for one, why would anyone look at the routine that Ronnie Coleman is doing while weighing 300lbs in the off season and assume they need to do exactly the same?

They shouldn’t…but they do. That’s part of the problem. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen/talked to people who do that. It makes me want to facepalm them with a 45 lb plate. But unfortunately, it’s true and that’s why you have people saying “don’t train like the pro’s do”. They don’t (usually) mean “don’t do basic movements”, they are attempting to speak directly to the dumbasses that try to copy the routines.

Both parties get misunderstood on this point, but I see where both sides are coming from.[/quote]

True. The problem comes when a trainer/author goes to the extreme here and basically tells the reader to train in a manner unlike what anyone who has ever reached a truly impressive size has used, or to completely ignore what the big guys do.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
It makes me want to facepalm them with a 45 lb plate. [/quote]

A genuine LOL! This is my new favorite saying!

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
The problem comes when a trainer/author goes to the extremeand basically tells the reader to train in a manner unlike what anyone who has ever reached a truly impressive size has used, or to completely ignore what the big guys do.[/quote]

What’s more, said trainer might be big and strong relatively speaking. He might have got that way following the basics. But since it’s time to promote his latest brainchild, tried and true go out the window; in comes the “revolutionary idea”.

[quote]pumped340 wrote:
I agree for the most part but there are top coaches who have 100’s of clients who say most people definitely shouldn’t train like the pro’s because they obviously can’t handle the same volume and/or frequency that a genetic freak on steroids can. The coaches I’m talking about are also really strong, experienced, big, etc…[/quote]

Erm, Matt K may be on gear but if you’re telling me that you can’t handle 1-3 total work sets per training day like he does, then you better take up sewing instead of strength training…

Same for 98 percent of pros (though Matt goes lower in volume than the average BB pro). What do you think these people do? Endless work-sets, drop sets, forced reps, supersets(ha!), etc?

Most of those actual pro-routines (except for Ronnie’s old off-season thing where he trained every muscle-group twice a week… And that was quite the exception to the rule) are pretty much carbon copies of what you see in the “Professor X: a resquest” thread, with some differences here and there… But the volume overall isn’t really all that different.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i listen to C_C, thats it.

and even then, i listen to the great philosophy that you need to train for your body, no two people are the same, do what works for you and what you feel is right.

so even if someone says i should X amount of reps of G amount of sets i may do a few extra of either just because i feel ready for it.

i stopped reading articles on this site 6 months ago. logically, you cant spit out some new groundbreaking training method every week or whatever.

even the owner of Metroflex was interviewed and saying how Branch n Ronnie trained with pretty basic concepts, just heavy weight and lots of intensity.
[/quote] Yeah, Ronnie is actually one of the few exceptions in that he had periods where he trained every muscle twice a week. Still, standard ramping to one top-set on almost everything, 3 exercises per muscle-group…
Most others do that and train everything once a week, that’s pretty much the norm.

You’d think that doing 2-3 exercises per muscle-group for 3-4 ramped sets(1 top set each) once per week for a total of 4-6 sessions would be well within the realm of possibility for most people on this forum…

I mean, just about any of CT’s bb programs have about 4 times the amount of work-sets…
Other people on here do 10*3 and what have you, all at the same weight and with 4-8 full-body sessions a week and what not.

Amusing how few people even know that their training approach is far more extreme/far higher in volume than that of most pros all things considered…
Yet everyone goes on about how they could never handle pro-volume. Give me a break…

[quote]
id rather listen to what a pro BBer has to say about being a pro BBer than a guy who read a couple textbooks about it.[/quote]

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

They shouldn’t…but they do. That’s part of the problem. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen/talked to people who do that. It makes me want to facepalm them with a 45 lb plate. But unfortunately, it’s true and that’s why you have people saying “don’t train like the pro’s do”. They don’t (usually) mean “don’t do basic movements”, they are attempting to speak directly to the dumbasses that try to copy the routines.

Both parties get misunderstood on this point, but I see where both sides are coming from.[/quote]

Exactly

[quote]IrishMarc wrote:
All music to my ears.

Watch for the bar speed!..

[/quote]

i follow the principle that it isnt how fast the bar moves its how fast youre trying to move it and that every positive should be down as explosive as possible and that every negative should be controlled.

saying you should stop a set once you slow down…gimme a break