T Nation

It's time

Okay, fellas. I’m at my genetic peak. A little background so you know I’m not a putz…I’ve powerlifted for the YORK Dumbbell team, but have been bodybuilding @ nat’l comps. for 4 years now @ lt. heavy wt. and winning. It’s time to take it to the next level. I’m 5’ 10" @ 210 and 8% b.f. and get down to 190 or so show time…to the question:

I can get my hands on anything, so now I need some advice for my first cycle…hit me…

What are your goals? You going to compete? Do you have to take tests?

Your best bet to begin with is Test, tren, and dbol. The first cycle is usually the cycle (if done properly) in which you will put on the most size. If you need an idea on how to structure this cycle, checkout some of my past post in which I have outlined the dosages and drugs week by week, day by day.
Once you have decided for sure what you want to do, post it (the structure of your cycle, including dosages or drugs for every week of your cycle) and we’ll critique it. p.s. don’t forget to include your plans for ancillary use both during and post cycle. P-22

From all the elevated liver enzyme issues I’ve read about lately, staying away from 17AA androgens might be a good idea.

yeah i agree with P-22. I am just finishing a tren/test/dbol cycle and it worked wonders for me. 100mgs of tren and test prop ED for 10 weeks and 30mgs of dbol ED for the first 5 weeks…gained a lot of weight and my strength went through the roof. first 6 weeks alone my bench went up 50lbs. make sure to have some adex and nolva on hand though

I like 8 to 10 week cycles so If I were you I would try the following:
Week 1-6 test. enanthate/cyp/or sustanon at 750mgs(I personally feel that anything less is a waste of gear), along with equipoise at 400 mgs per week, and d-bol at 25-50mgs per day(I would run the d-bol for only 5 weeks).
Week 6-8 or 10 I would drop the testosterone enanthate or whatever you are using and substituted with testosterone propionate at 100 eod along with winstrol at 50-100mgs eod and add perhaps Primo at 300-500mgs per week until the end of your cycle. Stick with the equipoise for it will help you with your lifting by oiling your joints. It works very much like Deca but doesn’t have the nasty sides that most people experience. Also, you’ll need nolvadex or clomid(I prefer nolvadex during the cycle and clomid post)at 20mgs per day of nolvadex divided in two dosages - first thing in the morning and last thing before retiring. Also, you could start you Hcg protocol on week 3 at 1000-1,500i.u. A liver protectant would be a sound idea. Hope this helps.

You guys rule. If you don’t mind, I want to keep picking your brains. I want to do this right the first time or not do it at all.

So, Nitrox: I will be competing again bb comps and I want to finish what I started w/ a natural sanction and some people needing pay backs. Other than that, I’ll go NPC so only one more test need I worry about…polygraph and uranalysis.

Any help w/ that would be appreciated.

P22, Johnny, and E Machine. Thanks, fellas. Basically, I need to stay lean and could really care less about strength…My main concerns are excessive water retention and side effects. Obviously, size is top-priority. I need to avoid these other things. I’m really interested in all of your opinions concerning dosages etc. I need to know exactly what to get and what it does so it can get got and I can get started…Thanks again and talk to you all soon.
Tito Dorito

i wouldnt worry about bloat or other sides unless you are relly close to contest time. you can do your mass cycle, wait a couple months then run your cutter. you wont really have any issues with bloat if you run the right drugs in your cutter.

Its not so much the gear you use as it is your diet. If you have that dialed in then you won’t need to worry about looking soft.

Here’s my competition stack I am on right now (competition is March 13th and I am currently 215 lbs @ 5.7% bf.)

Testiviron 500 mg/ wk
Deca 400 mg/ wk
tren 75mg/ ed
winstrol 75mg/ed (oral)
Clenbutoral 150mcg ed
Nolvadex 40mg/day

(next wk will reducing test to 250/wk, deca to 200/ wk and adding dbol @ 20mg/ day, and hoping to get some adex started as well)

As you can see I have trouble holding weight and have to take a lot of shit when leaning out to preserve muscle.
But I can hardly wait until after the contest so I can eat again - I am going to blow up!

  • I will be posting pics shortly!

thats a nice little cocktail you got there! How much below maintenance calories are you on at the mo? And how long in total will you be on the clen 150mcg/ed?

I’ll be looking forward to the pics P-22, good luck in the competition.


First off, good luck to ya! Stay hungry to win and then start treating yourself while you load up your carbs. The “cocktail” you’ve spun up sounds good, but a little unclear to me as to what does what. Also, about the side effects, which ones will aid w/ what side effects?

I’m kinda doing a pre-cycle as far as i know thus far, but would be interested in timing another one for diet time…which is soon to come. Can you give me a good builder for this maintencance phase I’m in now?

Tito: Oh I intend to carb load the last wk - I am hoping to be down to where I want to be by monday- My legs are still a little too smooth for my liking but they are improving daily.

As far as Clenbutoral I ramped up using the protocol I have posted and have been doing 150mcg for the past week and 1/2- I am finished it at the end of this week and then I will be doing some ‘stacker 2’ I am also using T2-pro right now.

This is what my diet and workout is looking like right now:

moring 7:00 take pills and 35g isopro shake, 1 table spoon of udo’s choice oil

do cardio 20-40mins

35g isopro and a banana
30g protien -cottage cheese 0.4% with some canned pineapple and creatine

a chicken breast with salad

tren inject

a large steak

35g isopro shake
more udo’s oil

Weight workout

35g isopro shake
udo’s oil

more cottage cheese with pinaple
another stake or chicken breast with vegetables

take more pills

35g isopro shake or canned tuna with some ultra fat mirical whip mixed in


So this is what I am doing this week. Next week I will be back at school so no more cardio in the mornings, will probably go back to doing 20min after my weight workout.

As far as the ‘cocktail I am on’ I am doing the test and deca to help hold and gain some size -(I am trying to eat my weight up as I loose the fat), The Winstrol I am doing for mucle hardness and it is also a class 2 which is complementary to the class one drugs I am using. The tren helps with leaning, and helps hold my strength as well as the hard - dense - thick look of the muscles.

I will be reducing the test to help dry out, and hopefully will be getting some adex to help in this dept as well, and adding dbol instead which I feel will help give me a ‘full look’ without being bloated.
The nolva I am taking to prevent water retention and gyno - which is a constant battle for me.

After the contest I have a gram of sust a week some dbol and tren lined up with a lot of food to help with the ‘rebound’ I want to put on about 20lbs of muscle cut down for the provincials in June. So we shall see what my body does once It starts getting food again!

As far as a building cycle/ maintanance, there are some many different ways to skin the cat, you will have to tell me exactly what your goals are before I can recommend anything


Hey, I p.m.-ed you a photo so let me know when you get it. I did this so you might listen to some dieting techniques I have.

I have to get ready for work, but i took some notes of your diet and will be replying later tonight or in the a.m.


how about:



how would you feel about that for a first timer?

p.s. anything else or any one of these I should avoid for any reason
dbol makes us puffy, yes?, and what about finaplex?

Test, tren, and eq is great, imho…
Tren (or finaplex) will not give you any water retention, it has no estrogen conversion, and can help to reduce fat.

You may add in some winstrol to those 3 drugs for more strength, hardness, as well as some fat reduction.

Why don’t you post your picture on here so we all can see? I’m interested.

P22: given your background in the medical field, and the fact that many bb’ers have used it, why don’t you use T3 for that ‘paper-thin’ look? It CAN be used safely, if you are careful, can it not???

It is the king of all fat burners, and would probably shred you like crazy…

Tito: I’ll pm you with an example of a cutter
Archaic: I have a very good metabolism as is and I don’t wish to fuck that up. I am more interested in emulating the Clasic era of bodybuilding rather than the freakazoid era of today. I will never do t3, insulin, or GH.

Arch & p-22…here is senior tito dorito

Frank Zane was from the classic era and an (in)famous example of a T3 user.
But you’re right they’re dangerous, I think Zane fucked up his thyroid…

Just wait untill you see my pics - you’ll agree I don’t need any T3!