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It's Time to 20 Rep Squat!

im changing my current routine from a push,pull,legs method to a modified 20 rep squat routine and just wandering what you all think. I posted not long ago about legs dominating my upper body but after some advice i thought i would embrace my legs as i love squatting and after researching a bit i come up with this simple,basic routine

3x’s per week (mon,wed,fri - tue,thurs,sat)

Squat 1x20 (after a few warm up sets)
Push movement 5x5
pull movement 5x5

my current squat 3 rep max is 165kg, so im starting at 100kg and each workout im gonna add 2.5kg.
the other movements are gonna be compound movements, like a combo of
DB military press
pullups

flat bench
bent over barbell row

dips
rack pulls

gonna mix it up so i enjoy it and try to to eat plenty of clean calories.

what do you all think?

I would start the squat cycle lower, based on your squat max. You will be at 130 in less than ten workouts now…

Ever done 20 rep squats before by the way?

LOL each workout you think you’ll be able to add about 5 lbs, when you’re doing them 3x per week? Dude, only do the 20 rep squats every 4 days, and try adding 5 lbs each time, THAT is more realistic. I’ve used that method myself.

I think 100 kg is a good starting point. There was a time when I could do 23 reps with 95 kg and my 1RM was 110 kg. (That’s what happens when you believe long distance running is good for you.)

And you can’t do 20 rep squats three times a week. I think once every four days might be pushing it too.

[quote]kakno wrote:
And you can’t do 20 rep squats three times a week.[/quote]
As far back as the early 1920s, training 20-rep squats three times per week was the norm. They’d usually do it with several breaths between each rep, as opposed to doing 10 straight reps and then breathing between reps.

Guys like Mark Berry and JC Hise helped popularize high rep squats way back when, and they were working the lift heavy and often. The book Super Squats explains probably the most popular plan for a 20-rep squat-based program and it calls for working the lift three times each week, dropping down to two sessions if you’re not feeling totally recovered.

The Super Squats program (and most 20-rep squat plans) also call for adding 5-10 pounds every single session. In Berry and Hise’s day, one alternative was to increase the weight every other session (use the same weight for two consecutive workouts, and then increase, and repeat).

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
my current squat 3 rep max is 165kg, so im starting at 100kg[/quote]
The rule of thumb is to start with your 10-rep max, so as long as you can get 100 for 10 good reps, you’re fine.

This is absolutely as important as the squatting. If you’re not eating enough, you’ll burn out. Don’t overstress the “clean” part unless you’re very pudgy already.

yeah as Chris said, the Super Squats program is a 3 day a week method, adding 2.5kg (5lbs) each workout. This is what im basing it on. We’ll see how it goes, i will update this thread when i can.

ev1bl, i have never done a 20 rep squat program, but years ago i used to throw it in my leg day to mix things up and i loved, suprised i havent done it since.

my calories will be kept as clean as poss, i am a bit pudgy so i want to add as little to the fat as possible.

bit worried about my arms though, may throw the odd bi and tri exercises in now and then.

oh and im not using a belt.

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
yeah as Chris said, the Super Squats program is a 3 day a week method, adding 2.5kg (5lbs) each workout. This is what im basing it on. We’ll see how it goes, i will update this thread when i can.

ev1bl, i have never done a 20 rep squat program, but years ago i used to throw it in my leg day to mix things up and i loved, suprised i havent done it since.

my calories will be kept as clean as poss, i am a bit pudgy so i want to add as little to the fat as possible.

bit worried about my arms though, may throw the odd bi and tri exercises in now and then.

oh and im not using a belt. [/quote]

I think you’re gonna stall very, very fast on this program. You seriously think you’re just going to keep magically adding 5 lbs a workout, 3 times a week. That means your going to be 20 repping your 1RM max in 2 months; all the while eating as clean as possible. No way.

This program sounds stupid.

well i finished my first session, done 100kg for 20 fairly quickly and it wasnt as bad as i thought. I was panting, i felt a bit nausius but only after doing shoulder presses about 3-4 minutes after the squats.

all in all i did

1x20 squat
5x5 DB shoulder press
5x5 pulldowns
3x10 incline crunch
3x8 db curl
3x8 tri kickback
15 mins intervals on bike (not at a hard resistance)

and i feel ok-iah.

Sam, i only plan on doing this for around 2 months, you cant do this sort of thing for a long time mate. What would you suggest then?

I’d suggest reading these 2 threads:

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]adrenalinx wrote:
yeah as Chris said, the Super Squats program is a 3 day a week method, adding 2.5kg (5lbs) each workout. This is what im basing it on. We’ll see how it goes, i will update this thread when i can.

ev1bl, i have never done a 20 rep squat program, but years ago i used to throw it in my leg day to mix things up and i loved, suprised i havent done it since.

my calories will be kept as clean as poss, i am a bit pudgy so i want to add as little to the fat as possible.

bit worried about my arms though, may throw the odd bi and tri exercises in now and then.

oh and im not using a belt. [/quote]

I think you’re gonna stall very, very fast on this program. You seriously think you’re just going to keep magically adding 5 lbs a workout, 3 times a week. That means your going to be 20 repping your 1RM max in 2 months; all the while eating as clean as possible. No way.

This program sounds stupid.[/quote]

Let him try it and see. You never know. I am definitely no expert on the 20 Rep Squat program nor even know exactly how it is done, but the way it was done by old school lifters apparently worked. And if it doesn’t work for him, he’ll learn from it.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
You seriously think you’re just going to keep magically adding 5 lbs a workout, 3 times a week. That means your going to be 20 repping your 1RM max in 2 months[/quote]
Adding five pounds per workout is how it’s been done for decades. It’s absolutely hard as fuck, but… it’s supposed to be. The by-the-book Super Squats plan is just for six weeks (and it’s meant to be a straight-out bulking program, so I’m not sure if the dude is actually using the right tool for whatever job he’s trying to accomplish).

As I said before, this is exactly how guys were training 100+ years ago, before modern bodybuilding began growing in popularity, and the basic idea has stuck around today (DC training’s widowmakers, for example), because of its benefits for size, strength, and probably most of all, mental attitude.

Sam, those threads are very useful, im not gonna say that their ‘stupid’ at all cos they’re not, but the 20rep squats program is something different as i have been training conventionally and wanted to try something new. You may as well have posted a triathletes program, its good but not something i want to try, not at the moment anyway.

this is what i based this program on, i modified it to suit me and was asking opinions on it.

Im tryin to put on lean muscle, i gain fat quite quickly/easily, so when i mentioned ‘clean calories’ what im basically saying is im not gonna rely on junk or have alot of it. Im eating healthy nutritious calories, not just scoffing down whatever just for more calories. Lots of milk (2-3 pints whole milk a day) meats,fish and veg.So we’ll see.

Chris, your right with regards to the mental attitude of it. I found myself ‘going through the motions’ on my current routine and i thought this would test me mentally aswell as physically.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

As I said before, this is exactly how guys were training 100+ years ago, before modern bodybuilding began growing in popularity, and the basic idea has stuck around today (DC training’s widowmakers, for example), because of its benefits for size, strength, and probably most of all, mental attitude.[/quote]

DC incorporates widowmakers but nowhere in that program does it say to do them 3 times a week for 6 weeks straight so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. I just don’t understand why someone would do a bizarre program from 100 years ago when there’s far better bodybuilding programs out there.

I mean, this was posted in the BB forum so I’m assuming the primary goal is not just to have big legs and strong posterior chain. And I doubt this is the BEST way to go about that goal either since I’ve never heard of any modern powerlifters doing this routine.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

As I said before, this is exactly how guys were training 100+ years ago, before modern bodybuilding began growing in popularity, and the basic idea has stuck around today (DC training’s widowmakers, for example), because of its benefits for size, strength, and probably most of all, mental attitude.[/quote]

DC incorporates widowmakers but nowhere in that program does it say to do them 3 times a week for 6 weeks straight so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. I just don’t understand why someone would do a bizarre program from 100 years ago when there’s far better bodybuilding programs out there.

I mean, this was posted in the BB forum so I’m assuming the primary goal is not just to have big legs and strong posterior chain. And I doubt this is the BEST way to go about that goal either since I’ve never heard of any modern powerlifters doing this routine.[/quote]

Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s better. And the programs the old school guys did usually incorporated strength and endurance along with growth. For them, it wasn’t just about aesthetics, it was about all around health and well being. t was nothing for a lot of those guys to do a powerlifting competition and a bodybuilding competition in the same weekend.

[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s better. And the programs the old school guys did usually incorporated strength and endurance along with growth. For them, it wasn’t just about aesthetics, it was about all around health and well being. t was nothing for a lot of those guys to do a powerlifting competition and a bodybuilding competition in the same weekend.[/quote]

If the current training methods aren’t better, then why aren’t any of the pro’s (natural and untested) doing this specific program that I’m arguing against more often? If you wanna argue if traditional BB splits aren’t as good for health and conditioning then this program, then fine. I’ll give you that. But I do believe the current bodybuilding training methods and powerlifting are superior to what they were doing back in the 20s for both size and strength respectively.

I did 20 rep squats once every 5 days about 2 years ago and the weight I was able to add each week was absolutely shocking to me. I started with a weight I could only do 18 times and added over 60 pounds to it over the course of about 6-7 weeks. I would encourage you to take lewhitehurst’s advice and do it. Like i said, i was amazed at how fast my stamina increased. When the gains start to grind to a halt, switch it up.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
Just because it’s new doesn’t mean it’s better. And the programs the old school guys did usually incorporated strength and endurance along with growth. For them, it wasn’t just about aesthetics, it was about all around health and well being. t was nothing for a lot of those guys to do a powerlifting competition and a bodybuilding competition in the same weekend.[/quote]

If the current training methods aren’t better, then why aren’t any of the pro’s (natural and untested) doing this specific program that I’m arguing against more often? If you wanna argue if traditional BB splits aren’t as good for health and conditioning then this program, then fine. I’ll give you that. But I do believe the current bodybuilding training methods and powerlifting are superior to what they were doing back in the 20s for both size and strength respectively.[/quote]

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask them? And I have worked out with pros before. I can not speak for every pro but one I know of can attribute the base of his size and strength to using a lot of old school methods. Once he got a good base of size and strength he started getting fancy, so to speak, but old school methods were good enough to earn him an IFBB pro card as a natural. And I am not disparaging anyone’s program or even saying this is better than the other what I am saying is just because it isn’t new doesn’t mean it isn’t valid or effective.

Why are you so opposed to him trying something different? It’s like this has actually gotten to be a trigger point for you.

I have tried a lot of old school methods, just to see what they would do and all I can say is I am bigger and stronger than you, so the proof is in the pudding.

to me bodybuilding is nothing more then doing all you have to do to bring up all your 8-12RM on all exercises. Power lifting = westside method. if i do complicate it more then this i no longer enjoy working out. fuck, im so stupid.

[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask them? And I have worked out with pros before. I can not speak for every pro but one I know of can attribute the base of his size and strength was gained using a lot of old school methods. Once he got a good base of size and strength he started getting fancy, so to speak, but old school methods were good enough to earn him an IFBB pro card as a natural. And I am not disparaging anyone’s program or even saying this is better than the other what I am saying is just because it isn’t new doesn’t mean it isn’t valid or effective.

Why are you so opposed to him trying something different? It’s like this has actually gotten to be a trigger point for you.
[/quote]

A trigger point? I don’t think so. He asked for opinions on a program. I gave him my opinion and the logic behind it. So did a couple others. I also directed him to some links with how some of the bigger, stronger guys on this site got that way. He can make up his own mind on whether he wants to try it out. It’s not like I’m taking away his gym membership and forcing him not to do it.

[quote] I have tried a lot of old school methods, just to see what they would do and all I can say is I am bigger and stronger than you, so the proof is in the pudding.
[/quote]

So what? And there are guys bigger and stronger than you that have never heard of this 20 rep squat 3 days a week method. You admitted yourself that you didn’t try it, so it’s not like it was responsible for your size today. I didn’t even say all old school methods were worthless. I’m specifically talking about the 20 rep squat method the OP outlined in his 1st post.

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:

[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:

I don’t know. Why don’t you ask them? And I have worked out with pros before. I can not speak for every pro but one I know of can attribute the base of his size and strength was gained using a lot of old school methods. Once he got a good base of size and strength he started getting fancy, so to speak, but old school methods were good enough to earn him an IFBB pro card as a natural. And I am not disparaging anyone’s program or even saying this is better than the other what I am saying is just because it isn’t new doesn’t mean it isn’t valid or effective.

Why are you so opposed to him trying something different? It’s like this has actually gotten to be a trigger point for you.
[/quote]

A trigger point? I don’t think so. He asked for opinions on a program. I gave him my opinion and the logic behind it. So did a couple others. I also directed him to some links with how some of the bigger, stronger guys on this site got that way. He can make up his own mind on whether he wants to try it out. It’s not like I’m taking away his gym membership and forcing him not to do it.

[quote] I have tried a lot of old school methods, just to see what they would do and all I can say is I am bigger and stronger than you, so the proof is in the pudding.
[/quote]

So what? And there are guys bigger and stronger than you that have never heard of this 20 rep squat 3 days a week method. You admitted yourself that you didn’t try it, so it’s not like it was responsible for your size today. I didn’t even say all old school methods were worthless. I’m specifically talking about the 20 rep squat method the OP outlined in his 1st post.
[/quote]

Well, Cronus said he has tried it and it worked. Why the automatic assumption it isn’t good for the OP? It’s a learning process.

And if you look at your previous posts, your contention is that newer methods are intrinsically better, which anyone who has lifted for an appreciable amount of time and kept an open mind would tell you is not a definitively true statement or assumption.

Anyway, adrenalinx try it out and let us know what happens and don’t be afraid to try different things than other sheeple. Life’s about learning and growing, IMO.