T Nation

Issue with Deadlifts

Ok so I’ve got a problem with deadlifts. First off my personal 1RM is 425 and I can get that with a bit of rounding.

The thing is…even when just doing normal number of sets and reps…it sometimes feels like I’m rounding my back. I can’t be too sure because I obviously can’t see myself, but my workout buddy said today I was rounding my back a bit when we were doing our 6x3 workout with dl’s today.

I try my best to keep strict form the thing is it gets harder when I increase the weight. I think, but not entirely sure, that I can keep from rounding my back if I just stick with 225…maybe 275? But I know I can lift more. My first couple of sets go fine, it’s just after the 2nd or 3rd that I can’t keep perfect form. I always feel tighter in my lower back then anywhere else as well.

I have a hard time clearing my knees and shins. My shins are banged up already from this week.

Is it ok to not keep perfect form all the time if I’m not feeling any discomfort?

I don’t do DL’s for power, mainly for back thickness. Should I perhaps try doing them with the trap bar? Or maybe I could just T-bar rows/T-bar DLs for back thickness?

I really like doing DLs, but my shins can’t take this beating anymore and I don’t want to fuck myself over.

Definately you will need a complete optical polarization on your training views, as you can read about me I’m not trained at all but I have followed many people who are and I exactly know whats wrong, when and why.

First of all I will assume you know yourself since your description is pretty good and you seem to feel yourself.

You will need to detone entirely, stop training the way you do and turn around to complete flexibility training with full yoga practice and diet rehearsal, you can folllow my other threads about this.

Then you will need to start again with velocity training (once you are able to complete the yoga wheel pause which will allow your pelvic and head joints to compress properly) with the powerball and the tool that you use to train your legs with it. Once you mastered the velocity on your four limbs on both right and left twists you’ll be able to have fun without worrying ever again.

Namase !

whoah, that’s a whole lot of words that I’ve never heard before, lol.

So you’re telling me I should stop weight training for a bit and turn to flexibility training until I’ve mastered that and the velocity training and then I’ll have no more problems clearing my knees/shins?

[quote]Ahuae wrote:
Definately you will need a complete optical polarization on your training views, as you can read about me I’m not trained at all but I have followed many people who are and I exactly know whats wrong, when and why.

First of all I will assume you know yourself since your description is pretty good and you seem to feel yourself.

You will need to detone entirely, stop training the way you do and turn around to complete flexibility training with full yoga practice and diet rehearsal, you can folllow my other threads about this.

Then you will need to start again with velocity training (once you are able to complete the yoga wheel pause which will allow your pelvic and head joints to compress properly) with the powerball and the tool that you use to train your legs with it. Once you mastered the velocity on your four limbs on both right and left twists you’ll be able to have fun without worrying ever again.

Namase ![/quote]

What in the FUCK are you talking about? What’s with your new-age bullshit that you just blabber about in random threads?

To the op, if your technique problems stem from (in your opinion) flexibility issues, then start introducing flexibility/mobility training if you haven’t already. Sounds to me though that you know how to lift in good form, but it starts to go when the weight gets heavy. My advice is to train with good technique ever rep and not allow yourself to load up more without being strong enough to keep form. If you are diligent and don’t “ego load”, you will get stronger and stay healthier. Also, go over you DL cues, or let your partner give them audibly. Things like “Chest up” or “glutes tight” or something similar. Perfect practice makes perfect.

As for the knees/shins part, you might be starting the pull in the wrong place. Another reason may be that your extending your hips before your knees. By extending your knees initial, you’ll decrease the angle of your knee and allow the bar to come up in a straight line. Look at some DL diagrams and compare how you set up. You want to bar close to your shins or you’ll lose it out in front of you, but too close to your shins presents problems as well. Good luck.

Your lower back tightness is normal to an extent since your spinal erectors are greatly challenged by the DL, however, take a little self inventory when you lift and evaluate whether or not your actually using your glutes to finish the movement. Your glutes and hams are to prime movers in the DL, and if they’re not firing/being recruited properly, your lower back ends up taking the load. So remember to squeeze those glutes throughout the entire movement and to lockout with your hips, not leaning back with your spine. Alot of lifters end up making the deadlift a “backlift”. The hip extension movement is right, not a spinal extension movement.

[quote]Ahuae wrote:
Definately you will need a complete optical polarization on your training views, as you can read about me I’m not trained at all but I have followed many people who are and I exactly know whats wrong, when and why.

First of all I will assume you know yourself since your description is pretty good and you seem to feel yourself.

You will need to detone entirely, stop training the way you do and turn around to complete flexibility training with full yoga practice and diet rehearsal, you can folllow my other threads about this.

Then you will need to start again with velocity training (once you are able to complete the yoga wheel pause which will allow your pelvic and head joints to compress properly) with the powerball and the tool that you use to train your legs with it. Once you mastered the velocity on your four limbs on both right and left twists you’ll be able to have fun without worrying ever again.

Namase ![/quote]

LOL

I’m guilty of that last part of making it a “backlift” though I’ve been trying to correct it over the past couple of weeks but still find myself at times leaning with my back. I guess I always rationalized if I was going to work my back more, then I should just lean back because you always hear how DL’s are for back thickening.

I’ve been watching some vids on here in an article with people deadlifting and I do think I start extending my hips before my knees…but the problem doesn’t really come on the positive pull.

The main problem really comes after I’ve pulled the weight up, to be honest. When going back down I’m still trying to keep my back neutral but as I try to do that the bar just waylays on my shins. They look like a two year old just punched me has hard as it could in 3 different spots on each shin, heh.

I guess I’ll go over some more videos and such and start stretching. I use to be really flexible a couple years back because I had been doing martial arts for about 5 years, but the past two years I haven’t been able to get back into it because of school and ignored my stretching.

[quote]cgeezy wrote:
Ahuae wrote:

What in the FUCK are you talking about? What’s with your new-age bullshit that you just blabber about in random threads?

To the op, if your technique problems stem from (in your opinion) flexibility issues, then start introducing flexibility/mobility training if you haven’t already. Sounds to me though that you know how to lift in good form, but it starts to go when the weight gets heavy. My advice is to train with good technique ever rep and not allow yourself to load up more without being strong enough to keep form. If you are diligent and don’t “ego load”, you will get stronger and stay healthier. Also, go over you DL cues, or let your partner give them audibly. Things like “Chest up” or “glutes tight” or something similar. Perfect practice makes perfect.

As for the knees/shins part, you might be starting the pull in the wrong place. Another reason may be that your extending your hips before your knees. By extending your knees initial, you’ll decrease the angle of your knee and allow the bar to come up in a straight line. Look at some DL diagrams and compare how you set up. You want to bar close to your shins or you’ll lose it out in front of you, but too close to your shins presents problems as well. Good luck.

Your lower back tightness is normal to an extent since your spinal erectors are greatly challenged by the DL, however, take a little self inventory when you lift and evaluate whether or not your actually using your glutes to finish the movement. Your glutes and hams are to prime movers in the DL, and if they’re not firing/being recruited properly, your lower back ends up taking the load. So remember to squeeze those glutes throughout the entire movement and to lockout with your hips, not leaning back with your spine. Alot of lifters end up making the deadlift a “backlift”. The hip extension movement is right, not a spinal extension movement.[/quote]

To the OP:

cgeezy nailed alot of good info in this post.

Just one thing I would like to mention. In regards to if it is ok to keep doing DL with improper form or no discomfort just keep in mind one thing: a lot of injuries that happen occur because of microtrauma.

Repetitive insults to your vertebrae through improper deadlifting form may not hurt you at the time…but it builds up (or tears down so to speak).

Good luck.

Two more questions.

After reading some more and watching some videos…you’re supposed to keep the bar in contact with your shins and quad, right? That’s what I got from a couple of videos I watched.

Also, I only do DLs for size. Not trying to compete in lifts or anything so would using straps be beneficial? I’m all about getting my back bigger and thicker and reading these forums some people say you can lift more with straps…possibly using them might help a bit with keeping my form?

The problem NEARLY ALL gym goers have with the deadlift is that they have abysmal glutes and hamstrings and upper backs. This is what causes the rounding.

I once had these problems but they were quickly corrected (6 months time) by doing mobility and glute activation drills, lunges, stepups, pull throughs, glute ham raises, leg curls, dumbbell, bent over, or cable rows, and rear delt raises.

Now I do not round my back much at all and I literally tear the bar from the floor with no awkward shit happening during the reps. I experience hardly any erector soreness or any weird shit going on in my lower back area the next day. Actually, I am more sore in my glutes, lats, hams, and upper back from deadlifts.

Well I’m surprised I get bashed for giving good advice, new age bullshit ? Thats a first, powerball maybe is new-age, but you’ll find yousrself a little retarded for not using it before mr. Perfect makes for perfect perfect !

I rehiterate since I think Mr.Perfect has very good advice as well, it’s just that you do not only have muscles, there is genes in your bone marrows and if sounds like it needs some fortification. I would do that before I start beefing up again , anyways it sounds like you can handle yourself pretty well. Germinating full grains with bran is a must, supplements are good but for gene-activation live food is hard to beat !

Anyways, I guess it’s pretty clear already !

Namase !

[quote]Ahuae wrote:
Well I’m surprised I get bashed for giving good advice, new age bullshit ? Thats a first, powerball maybe is new-age, but you’ll find yousrself a little retarded for not using it before mr. Perfect makes for perfect perfect !

I rehiterate since I think Mr.Perfect has very good advice as well, it’s just that you do not only have muscles, there is genes in your bone marrows and if sounds like it needs some fortification. I would do that before I start beefing up again , anyways it sounds like you can handle yourself pretty well. Germinating full grains with bran is a must, supplements are good but for gene-activation live food is hard to beat !

Anyways, I guess it’s pretty clear already !

Namase ![/quote]

Dude, you are weird. But I kind of like it.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
The problem NEARLY ALL gym goers have with the deadlift is that they have abysmal glutes and hamstrings and upper backs. This is what causes the rounding.

I once had these problems but they were quickly corrected (6 months time) by doing mobility and glute activation drills, lunges, stepups, pull throughs, glute ham raises, leg curls, dumbbell, bent over, or cable rows, and rear delt raises.

Now I do not round my back much at all and I literally tear the bar from the floor with no awkward shit happening during the reps. I experience hardly any erector soreness or any weird shit going on in my lower back area the next day. Actually, I am more sore in my glutes, lats, hams, and upper back from deadlifts. [/quote]

My upper back and rear delts are actually in good shape, however, I have to admit my hammies aren’t the best. Could be the problem as well to several other things.

Appreciate the advice guys.

Definately this would be your lowerback spine marrow needing feeding to allow you to gain in the legs while maintaining your proper bio-electricity.

Would recommend lots of Evening primrose or Borage oils to add as you train your flexibility. Sulfur compounds such as MSM would definately help nerve cell wall integrity as it stretches, glucosamine, condhroitin. And perhaps if its legal in your country a very careful usage of DMSO would help get things going, especially if you can find pure ecdysterones and anti-oxidants to dissolve in it.

Namase !

Ahuae wrote:

cgeezy wrote:

Looks like trolling to me. Or maybe even too obviously nonsensical to be considered trolling. “Once you mastered the velocity on your four limbs on both right and left twists you’ll be able to have fun without worrying ever again”?

Check this article out.

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/library/51-2006_AnalysisofDeadlift.pdf

It talks about hips coming up before bar, whether shoulders should be in front or behind bar etc.

[quote]Sir wrote:
Ok so I’ve got a problem with deadlifts. First off my personal 1RM is 425 and I can get that with a bit of rounding.

The thing is…even when just doing normal number of sets and reps…it sometimes feels like I’m rounding my back. I can’t be too sure because I obviously can’t see myself, but my workout buddy said today I was rounding my back a bit when we were doing our 6x3 workout with dl’s today.

I try my best to keep strict form the thing is it gets harder when I increase the weight. I think, but not entirely sure, that I can keep from rounding my back if I just stick with 225…maybe 275? But I know I can lift more. My first couple of sets go fine, it’s just after the 2nd or 3rd that I can’t keep perfect form. I always feel tighter in my lower back then anywhere else as well.

I have a hard time clearing my knees and shins. My shins are banged up already from this week.

Is it ok to not keep perfect form all the time if I’m not feeling any discomfort?

I don’t do DL’s for power, mainly for back thickness. Should I perhaps try doing them with the trap bar? Or maybe I could just T-bar rows/T-bar DLs for back thickness?

I really like doing DLs, but my shins can’t take this beating anymore and I don’t want to fuck myself over.[/quote]

A few things here:

  1. When you are learning, your form should be as close to perfect as you can get it so you imprint the right motor patterns. You only need to round your back ONCE at the wrong time for your life to change dramatically, so advance with caution if you make the decision to forfeit form.

  2. Trap bar deadlifts are regarded as a precursor to other versions of the movement. There is nothing wrong with them, although they don’t have the “hey look at that guy” appeal. They really are a great exercise and if your gym has the bar use it while you work on your flexibility and form.

[quote]Ahuae wrote:

You will need to detone entirely, stop training the way you do and turn around to complete flexibility training with full yoga practice and diet rehearsal, you can folllow my other threads about this.

Then you will need to start again with velocity training (once you are able to complete the yoga wheel pause which will allow your pelvic and head joints to compress properly) with the powerball and the tool that you use to train your legs with it. Once you mastered the velocity on your four limbs on both right and left twists you’ll be able to have fun without worrying ever again.

Namase ![/quote]

I’ve heard Ronnie followed this advice to a T on his way to his 4th Olympia.

What is trolling btw ?

Is it like the thing you do when you are to lazy to throw your line ? Or does it have to do with trolls ? People been accusing me :S

Namase !

[quote]Ahuae wrote:
Definately this would be your lowerback spine marrow needing feeding to allow you to gain in the legs while maintaining your proper bio-electricity.

Would recommend lots of Evening primrose or Borage oils to add as you train your flexibility. Sulfur compounds such as MSM would definately help nerve cell wall integrity as it stretches, glucosamine, condhroitin. And perhaps if its legal in your country a very careful usage of DMSO would help get things going, especially if you can find pure ecdysterones and anti-oxidants to dissolve in it.

Namase ![/quote]

What the fuck is this nonsensical garbage? Moron.

To the OP,

I’m 6’2, and have a 33" inseam - shorter torso obviously.

I’ve had some of the same issues you speak of with slight rounding of the back and some nicked up shins.

I’ve done exactly what a few others have already mentioned; flex the glutes, chest high, pull through with the hips. I’ve also dropped some pounds off of the bar and now practice a 5x5 routine for Deadlifts until I master the technique.

Good luck bud.

Haha, talking about nonsense, and you say to me yet, nothing.

Brag all you want, you forget that the central nerve does not grow with your muscle, it merely stretches !

Namase !