T Nation

Israel: Give Me A Motive!


#1


I've said it more than once that there are no "winners" or "losers" in this latest conflict...just losers...

But with all the "talking heads" in the "Zionist Controlled Media" (Israel BADLY needs a new Public Relations firm if this is anybody's idea of "control")...NOT ONCE have I heard them mention that the ONLY motive Israel has...and that is to stop the Hamas Rockets.

Period.

They don't want to "wipe the Palestinians off the face of the Earth". (like the millions surrounding Israel want to do to them).

They don't want to annex Gaza and/or place settlements there.

And to those that day "Israel Broke the "cease fire":

Bullshit.

There never WAS one, as Hamas rockets continued on a daily basis.

This conflict is about stopping those rockets (whose range has now dramatically increased; can anyone say "IRAN"?)

I'm all ears if someone could give me another motive that Israel might have.

Mufasa


#2

Speaking if Iran…

Where has Israel’s staunchest supporter in the Middle East been?

Haven’t heard much from Mahmoud…

Mufasa


#3

I agree, however they have always been attacked since it’s inception over religion. We simply cannot “negotiate” or “debate” their issues. Truces NEVER hit the actual issue, which is Anti-Semitism.

I for one, fear that Hezzies will start up from the North, and then we will have the media blitz of civilian casualties that will be blamed on the Isralis by defending itself.

See, the world wants to understand this all and just talk. This can not work because of the simple nature of the religious issues does not allow for anyone to logically come up with solutions.

Isreal, in order to protect itself from the rockets will need to occupy a lot of territory outside it’s borders once again.

Occupation is the only way to protect themselves. I say go get it done.


#4

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Speaking if Iran…

Where has Israel’s staunchest supporter in the Middle East been?

Haven’t heard much from Mahmoud…

Mufasa[/quote]

That’s because he’s neck deep in it via this proxy war. It would be too obvious if he was chanting “Death to Isreal”. Plus he’s done as their leader soon.


#5

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I agree, however they have always been attacked since it’s inception over religion. We simply cannot “negotiate” or “debate” their issues. Truces NEVER hit the actual issue, which is Anti-Semitism.

I for one, fear that Hezzies will start up from the North, and then we will have the media blitz of civilian casualties that will be blamed on the Isralis by defending itself.

See, the world wants to understand this all and just talk. This can not work because of the simple nature of the religious issues does not allow for anyone to logically come up with solutions.

Isreal, in order to protect itself from the rockets will need to occupy a lot of territory outside it’s borders once again.

Occupation is the only way to protect themselves. I say go get it done.[/quote]

Yea, because using force has worked out so well for the region in the past.

If they can do it in Northern Ireland, they can do it in Israel. However, both sides must make concessions. Until they are willing to do that, America should have nothing to do with it, and support neither side. Fuck Israel- they are the bullies on the block. And fuck the Palestinians, because they never listen to cease fires, and won’t leave Israel alone.

And who pays the price? Us, for supporting this little shitbag country.

Again- until both make concessions, we shouldn’t support either side.


#6

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Again- until both make concessions, we shouldn’t support either side. [/quote]

And I’m saying this is impossible based on their religious beliefs and teachings and Anti-Semitism in the entire region.

To claim there should be no support from the US to Isreal, or either side for that matter, is irresponsible and negligent at best.


#7

My guess is that this won’t end until there is either Isreal or Palestine, but not both. At this point, I think a two state solution is a pipe dream. And with international pressure to work towards such a thing, this conflict is being stretched out indefinitely.

Well, until some final breaking point is reached. At some point in the future (maybe not the near future) either Israel will be wiped out, or the Palestinians will be pushed into surrounding countries never to return home leaving them with no land to ever build a nation on.

Eventually, one side is going to have the means and the will to go “winner take all.”


#8

I agree. The entire Zionist controlled media command center needs to be fired and replaced IMMEDIATELY. How does Pallywood keep getting all of the air time? The ZOG is completely asleep at the switch.


#9

Here’s their motive: They hate Palestinians.

I mean what else can you say when Israel fires unprovoked on a peaceful protest and kills 10 civilians? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38959-2004May19.html

They hate the Palestinians, they want them dead as much as the Palestinians want the Israelis dead. What do you consider cutting off food and medicine to Palestinians? You don’t consider that a form of terrorism or attempting to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth???

Fuck em both. Why any of you believe that Israel deserves US support is beyond me. Because they bomb civilians with conventional methods such as cluster bombs and long range missiles instead of bombs wrapped around a chest? Yeah, I suppose that is much more humane. I can see where you guys are coming from now, it makes perfect sense!

15 kills via suicide bomber- terrorism
500 Kills via bombs and missiles- justice

I could give a fuck about the Israelis or the Palestinians, but quit acting like Israel is some fucking defenseless country deserving of support and pity when they’re just as fucking guilty as the Palestinians are in terms of murder and keeping this fucking everlasting war going.


#10

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I agree, however they have always been attacked since it’s inception over religion. We simply cannot “negotiate” or “debate” their issues. Truces NEVER hit the actual issue, which is Anti-Semitism.

I for one, fear that Hezzies will start up from the North, and then we will have the media blitz of civilian casualties that will be blamed on the Isralis by defending itself.

See, the world wants to understand this all and just talk. This can not work because of the simple nature of the religious issues does not allow for anyone to logically come up with solutions.

Isreal, in order to protect itself from the rockets will need to occupy a lot of territory outside it’s borders once again.

Occupation is the only way to protect themselves. I say go get it done.

Yea, because using force has worked out so well for the region in the past.

If they can do it in Northern Ireland, they can do it in Israel. However, both sides must make concessions. Until they are willing to do that, America should have nothing to do with it, and support neither side. Fuck Israel- they are the bullies on the block. And fuck the Palestinians, because they never listen to cease fires, and won’t leave Israel alone.

And who pays the price? Us, for supporting this little shitbag country.

Again- until both make concessions, we shouldn’t support either side. [/quote]

Dude, you need to check your history books. Israel has made a shit load of concessions in the past. And remember, Israel is a small nation surrounded by Arab nations wanting them dead. So I think it is the Arabs that need to make the very big concession of leaving Israel alone.


#11

I agree with Lorisco. The Israelis have made
tons of concessions, concessions that made it harder to defend themselves against the very type of attacks Hamas has been launching. Go to Jewish World Reveiw and see
what a lot of Jewish people think about the
concessions that have been made. Their enemies are only a few miles away and they have given up a lot of the natural boundaries that made Israel defendable.

This is a small country, 9 miles wide at it’s
narrowest point I believe and surrounded by
potential enemies. Though I am not Jewish
I have spent quite a bit of time in Ashdod
and it’s not a secure feeling.


#12

Also, how do you negotiate with people who start out by saying you have no right to exist? Sort of renders the rest of the
conversation futile.


#13

[quote]sherekahn wrote:
I agree with Lorisco. The Israelis have made
tons of concessions, concessions that made it harder to defend themselves against the very type of attacks Hamas has been launching. Go to Jewish World Reveiw and see
what a lot of Jewish people think about the
concessions that have been made. Their enemies are only a few miles away and they have given up a lot of the natural boundaries that made Israel defendable.

This is a small country, 9 miles wide at it’s
narrowest point I believe and surrounded by
potential enemies. Though I am not Jewish
I have spent quite a bit of time in Ashdod
and it’s not a secure feeling.
[/quote]

Just to add…

The Israeli’s don’t have written in their political charters…or ingrained in their Religious Rhetoric the elimination of a group of people…

I’ll say it again…

IF there were no rockets being fired into Israel on a daily basis, there would not be this current conflict. (Unless her ememies were causing harm in other ways).

Israel has also ALWAYS made it VERY clear to their ememies that their responses would not be “an eye-for-an-eye” or “Tit-for-tat”…

Each Israeli death and/or incursion would be met with a 100-fold response.

Mufasa


#14

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Each Israeli death and/or incursion would be met with a 100-fold response.

Mufasa

[/quote]

I wish the US would fight like that.


#15

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
Here’s their motive: They hate Palestinians.

I mean what else can you say when Israel fires unprovoked on a peaceful protest and kills 10 civilians? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38959-2004May19.html

They hate the Palestinians, they want them dead as much as the Palestinians want the Israelis dead. What do you consider cutting off food and medicine to Palestinians? You don’t consider that a form of terrorism or attempting to wipe Palestinians off the face of the earth???

Fuck em both. Why any of you believe that Israel deserves US support is beyond me. Because they bomb civilians with conventional methods such as cluster bombs and long range missiles instead of bombs wrapped around a chest? Yeah, I suppose that is much more humane. I can see where you guys are coming from now, it makes perfect sense!

15 kills via suicide bomber- terrorism
500 Kills via bombs and missiles- justice

I could give a fuck about the Israelis or the Palestinians, but quit acting like Israel is some fucking defenseless country deserving of support and pity when they’re just as fucking guilty as the Palestinians are in terms of murder and keeping this fucking everlasting war going.[/quote]

Most likely, Israeli drones had pinpointed this as the general area where missles had been fired from.

ANY area in Gaza is populated with Civilians…but Hamas has a history of firing from “safe” areas like schools, hospitals, and near Mosques.

Mufasa


#16

So when Israeli troops fire on a civil protest and kill civilians that’s no big deal? Where’s your justification for that?

How do you justify blocking almost all imports and exports to Palestinians- including the most basic of necessities for human life such as medicine and food?

My point is that Israel enjoys murdering Palestinians just as much as Palestinians enjoy murdering Israelis.

We need to distance ourself from this conflict. Israel got land they shouldn’t have gotten, Palestinians are going to continue bombing, Israel will continue bombing, US will continue kissing Israeli ass for fear of appearing ‘anti-semetic’, around and around and around and around.


#17

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
So when Israeli troops fire on a civil protest and kill civilians that’s no big deal? Where’s your justification for that?[/quote]
Using schools and churches to deploy weapons from is deplorable, and constu=itutes the palestinians putting their own people in jeopardy, therefore The Palestinians are responsible for those civilian deaths…Period.

THEY LET DOZENS OF TRUCKS IN TO AID JUST TODAY NUMBNUTS.

Nope. Isreal would not attack ANYONE who did not provoke it with “wiping” them off the map. Please…try again.

Wrong. Ignoring this is empowering the Arab world who want to ethnically cleanse Jews from the earth. Israel does not want the same for Palestine, only to be left alone.


#18

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
I agree, however they have always been attacked since it’s inception over religion. We simply cannot “negotiate” or “debate” their issues. Truces NEVER hit the actual issue, which is Anti-Semitism.

I for one, fear that Hezzies will start up from the North, and then we will have the media blitz of civilian casualties that will be blamed on the Isralis by defending itself.

See, the world wants to understand this all and just talk. This can not work because of the simple nature of the religious issues does not allow for anyone to logically come up with solutions.

Isreal, in order to protect itself from the rockets will need to occupy a lot of territory outside it’s borders once again.

Occupation is the only way to protect themselves. I say go get it done.

Yea, because using force has worked out so well for the region in the past. [/quote]

Force has worked well, but the benefits derived have been negated by naive do-gooders like Jimmy Carter.

[quote]
If they can do it in Northern Ireland, they can do it in Israel. However, both sides must make concessions. Until they are willing to do that, America should have nothing to do with it, and support neither side. Fuck Israel- they are the bullies on the block. And fuck the Palestinians, because they never listen to cease fires, and won’t leave Israel alone. [/quote]

As difficult and intractable as they were, the Irish troubles were nowhere near as bad as what the Jews have to deal with from the Muslims.

The only concession the Jews can make that will fully satisfy the Arabs is to give the entire country to them and go back to being the wandering Jews.

No the Israelis are not the bullies. It was the Arabs who invaded Israel in 1948 because the UN recognized it as a country.

[quote]
And who pays the price? Us, for supporting this little shitbag country.

Again- until both make concessions, we shouldn’t support either side. [/quote]

America would not be a country if it wasn’t for the Jews financing the revolution. It is sad that many Americans are such ingrates.


Haym Solomon (or Salomon) (1740?1785) was a Polish Jew who immigrated to New York during the period of the American Revolution, and who became a prime financier of the American side during the American Revolutionary War against Great Britain.

The concession that needs to be made is the Muslim Arabs need to concede that violence is not getting them anywhere. Which is not going to happen because violence and hatred is too deeply ingrained into their religion.


#19

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
So when Israeli troops fire on a civil protest and kill civilians that’s no big deal? Where’s your justification for that?

How do you justify blocking almost all imports and exports to Palestinians- including the most basic of necessities for human life such as medicine and food?

My point is that Israel enjoys murdering Palestinians just as much as Palestinians enjoy murdering Israelis.

We need to distance ourself from this conflict. Israel got land they shouldn’t have gotten, Palestinians are going to continue bombing, Israel will continue bombing, US will continue kissing Israeli ass for fear of appearing ‘anti-semetic’, around and around and around and around.[/quote]

Don’t put words in my mouth.

Killing, war and death are ALWAYS “Big Deals”, where everyone loses.

MY point is that if Hamas is hell-bent on wiping Israel and the Jews off the face of the Earth, then there will be a lot of Palestinians dying in the carnage that follows such a foolish Political/Religious edict.

Mufasa


#20

So, why not attack the guys planting a rocket launcher near your house, school, or hospital? Why wait for Israel to respond, and then act outraged? Anyone? Anyone?