Isn't 'Confusing the Muscle' a Myth?

Fat people will drop more fat if they change up their program more frequently due to the caloric overhead associated with adaptation.

Body builders will grow more consistently if they change up a few of the supplementary exercises and manipulate reps, sets and rest times.

Strength sport participants will stagnate if they do not vary their workouts frequently because they need to perform ballistic movements along many different planes.

All three are concerned with growing muscle but their actual focus is very different so their training needs to be different.

Weider and the good people of P90x are great at marketing and they know a good system has a great catch phase that feels “right” when you say it.

I really like the ideas coming out of this thread. I think this definitely shows again that the KISS method applies to weight lifting too: if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I’ve often found myself in the trap of needing to use a new workout every 4-8 weeks, even when I was still making progress. Sometimes it did fall in that window, other times I felt I needed to change just because. From now on, the moment you stagnate your progress should be the moment you change your workout.

Even Vince Gironda said that there are a few exercises that really work all the others are only variations so not to get board with training…

I have found that for my own training that one exercise will be the most useful for a body part and will all ways go back to it if I change it up…

great thread by the by…

solid

As I’ve said before, P90X is where it’s at.

If the CNS is overloaded, it is because the over-all workload is too much, so switching to a different exercise and yet using the same amount of volume won’t prevent overtraining the CNS…only de-loading/rest/less frequent training will do that.

Which brings me back to the same point made earlier. If gains stop, it’s either because of overtraining or imbalance. Imbalances can be sorted by bringing up lagging muscle parts or by lightening the load and focussing more on the form/target muscle.

It doesn’t make sense to me to change from one exercise to another, other than to target the desired muscle MORE. In which case, the user would stick with that exercise continuously.

Like I said, a muscle will only be stimulated as far as the tension goes on it. Whichever exercise places the most load on the target muscle is the exercise to use.

Changing the angle of an exercise doesn’t target newer neural pathways to the target muscle, like I said, a muscle is either taxed or not taxed. Changing the angle/exercise simply means that other assistant muscles will be used more/less. Changing exercise/angle will make the target muscle work more or less. To use an exercise which uses the target muscle less is counterproductive.

As regards adaption (the system using less muscle fibres to do the same amount of work); this would also apply to the target muscle. So the conditions would not change when swapping exercises except for the different assistant muscles that are now being used. If you are targetting the chest, swaping to another chest exercise will not make the chest bigger if the chest has adapted. Basically, the assistant muscles would grow, but the target muscle would stay the same due to adaptation that resulted in the first exercise.

Changing exercsises means that the new assistant muscles that are now being used will be the weak link in your exercise! Progressive overload to the target muscle is what is needed. So to me, if you were to swap to a different exercise, you would need to bring up the assistant muscles before the target muscle is taxed anywhere near what it was before…which is counterproductive.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
One thing you have wrong though is that a short legged person with a long torso would benefit more from leg presses than squats for quad mass is incorrect. Actually, those with short legs and a long torso are built for squatting. [/quote]

Sorry, I got that mixed up…

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
ItsJust,
One thing you have wrong though is that a short legged person with a long torso would benefit more from leg presses than squats for quad mass is incorrect. Actually, those with short legs and a long torso are built for squatting. I have short legs and a long torso and the squat came easily to me the first time I tried it. I never had to start with lunges, leg presses, or any other leg exercise before I began squatting. I had the bar on my back, someone guided me through it a few times, and that was it. I added weight on the bar from there.

Dorian got better results from hack squats, leg presses, and Smith machine squats because he had long legs and a short torso.

Top deadlifters (Brad Gillingham, Andy Bolton, Gary Frank, Lamar Grant) have long legs and a short torso. [/quote]

what would be better for people with long legs and torso’s. i’m 6ft right now so i have long everything lol

David the basics are going to put huge slabs of muscle on you no matter what your leg length is. Squats, leg presses(DEEP), hack squats, v/power squat machines etc. If you can’t gain leg mass off those no toes pointed out leg extension is going to do it for you you know?

The day you squat 455x15-20(or hack or leg press etc) you will have absolutely enormous quads, everything else is just fluff work stopping you from getting there in my opinion.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
David the basics are going to put huge slabs of muscle on you no matter what your leg length is. Squats, leg presses(DEEP), hack squats, v/power squat machines etc. If you can’t gain leg mass off those no toes pointed out leg extension is going to do it for you you know?

The day you squat 455x15-20(or hack or leg press etc) you will have absolutely enormous quads, everything else is just fluff work stopping you from getting there in my opinion. [/quote]

oh yea i know to definitely stick the the basics, i was just wondering if long legs and long torso is “made” for anything like short legs are made for squat and long legs/short torso is made for deadlifts

ive heard a lot of mixed things about leg press though

[quote]David1991 wrote:

what would be better for people with long legs and torso’s. i’m 6ft right now so i have long everything lol [/quote]

6’ is not necessarily tall or long limbed, its pretty much average now. But if your 6’ and a small build then that might be a different story.

I just read one of the new articles by CT and he talks about this. I tend to agree with what he says based on my own experience. Im not necessarily tall only like 5’10-5’11" but im a fairly small build and have long lever arms. Ive made my best progress by focusing on deadlifts, and stepups, and using DB’s for upper body.

That doesn’t mean that its the only way though. Now im focusing more on bringing up my weaknesses with front squats and other exercises I have neglected.

-p-----------------------

Back to the OP question.

I dont really know where the whole “keep your muscles guessing” thing came from. It doesn’t make complete sense to me. Think of it this way. Olympic lifters spend their entire careers focusing on only a few lifts, and some exercises to assist in those lifts. The only thing keeping these athletes from becoming huge is the fact that they have weight classes, and they stick to lower volumes.

I think there are a few important reasons to modify or change your exercises from time to time.

1.) Most importantly is the law of diminishing returns. The more times you do a specific exercise with a specific grip and stance, etc…, the more volume its going to take to get further results. If you continue on too long, you’ll get to the point where prograss has stalled or reversed, and your even more likely to get injured.

I know Poliquin suggests never doing the exact same thing for more than 6 sessions. You might assume that by the sixth session of doing 5x5 on front squats you’ve already achieved 85% of what your gonna get from this specific exercise, and set/rep scheme. You could continue for six more sessions and try to get that last 15%, but this is far less than efficient, and this is the time when you’ll likely hurt yourself.

2.) With every exercise performed, there are stresses on your connective tissues and joints, that take longer to recover than your muscles do. Changing or modifying an exercise can help reduce repetative stress so you dont get injured.

3.) Changing or modifying the exercises make the program more fun. When its more fun, your likely to train harder and get better results. I always notice the best gains the first week or two of a new program, because im just happy to be doing something new, and put more effort in.

4.) Lastly, changing or modifying exercises will decrease the likelihood that your overtraining certain muscles, and undertraining others. If all you ever do is front squat, and dont ever do any pulls, your posterior chain is going to be very weak and your quads and hip flexors will be tight.


Thats my opinion on why you should modify exercises or change them from time to time.

I think individuals who are training specific movements like o-lifters and powerlifters, should modify the movement in little ways every couple of workouts. While individuals training for general strength improvements or for hypertrophy and fat loss can change around the movements more often.

I dont like when people get all fu-fu to try to “confuse” muscles. I recently started working at a gym, and they’ve got people doing all kinds of stepups+curls, and squats+rows, and they change the exercise EVERY single session. I dont know why people think that they need more than squats, deadlifts, presses, pulls, and some unilateral movements and explosive movements. I think it was cosgrove that mentioned the “big rocks” theory. Exercises like squats and deadlifts might account for 50% of your gains. Throwing in presses and pulls, will take you to 80%, and some unilateral work might get you to 90%. All that fu-fu stuff will only account for maybe 10%, yet these gyms these days spend over 50% of there time with fu-fu crap and maybe 5-10% of their time with squats and deadlifts (IF THEY DO THEM AT ALL). Just my little rant.

[quote]dankid wrote:
David1991 wrote:

what would be better for people with long legs and torso’s. i’m 6ft right now so i have long everything lol

6’ is not necessarily tall or long limbed, its pretty much average now. But if your 6’ and a small build then that might be a different story.

I just read one of the new articles by CT and he talks about this. I tend to agree with what he says based on my own experience. Im not necessarily tall only like 5’10-5’11" but im a fairly small build and have long lever arms. Ive made my best progress by focusing on deadlifts, and stepups, and using DB’s for upper body.

That doesn’t mean that its the only way though. Now im focusing more on bringing up my weaknesses with front squats and other exercises I have neglected.

[/quote]
yea 6ft isnt really [i]that[/t] tall but i do have long limbs, i’ve heard thats good for deadlifts but my torso is long too

[quote]dankid wrote:

I dont like when people get all fu-fu to try to “confuse” muscles. I recently started working at a gym, and they’ve got people doing all kinds of stepups+curls, and squats+rows, and they change the exercise EVERY single session. I dont know why people think that they need more than squats, deadlifts, presses, pulls, and some unilateral movements and explosive movements. I think it was cosgrove that mentioned the “big rocks” theory. Exercises like squats and deadlifts might account for 50% of your gains. Throwing in presses and pulls, will take you to 80%, and some unilateral work might get you to 90%. All that fu-fu stuff will only account for maybe 10%, yet these gyms these days spend over 50% of there time with fu-fu crap and maybe 5-10% of their time with squats and deadlifts (IF THEY DO THEM AT ALL). Just my little rant. [/quote]

good points, it’s not like you cant keep changing things while sticking with the basics though. if not for nothing else i think changing exercises at least keeps things interesting (however i’d rather get the better results)