T Nation

Islam vs. Democracy

The Sleeping World Is Awakening to the Dangers of Islam

November 29, 2004


An Article by Barbara Stock re: Islam and Democracy. Thoughts or comments?


This past week, I have received many responses from Muslims concerning my two most recent columns: ‘‘Followers of Islam: Can You See the Blood on Your Hands’’ and ‘‘Here Comes the Arab/Muslim Outrage.’’

In one breath, some the writers would call themselves ‘‘intellectuals’’ and then accuse me of being a Jew when I put tough questions to them that they could not answer. They maintained that as an American, I just was not intelligent enough to understand Islam. The mistake these ‘‘intellectuals’’ made is believing that I have any intention of ‘‘understanding’’ Islam.

It has taken me since 9/11 to realize that civilized humans cannot understand Islam. I am just overjoyed and somewhat relieved that the world is finally waking up in time to see the rabid dog coming its way disguised as Islam.

If Bin Laden has done one good thing in his wretched life, it was to poke a stick in the eye of the world by bringing his radical beliefs forward and urging his followers to commit violent acts. It has taken some time for people to begin taking a look at Muslims in their own areas, but it is happening. The French and the English are beginning to ask themselves, ‘‘When did this happen? When did 6 million Muslims get here and what are they planning to do?’’

Approximately 33% of the world is Christian and 20% is Muslim, based on figures for the year 2000. The number of Muslims is growing at an alarming rate. Muslims immigrated to peaceful, mostly Christian countries in Europe where they had large families that were reasonably safe from the ravages of their own strict religious teachings. At least these Muslims were safe until the radical element migrated from the oppressive Middle Eastern countries and began exerting its power over the masses and started menacing the indigenous populations that took Muslims in and welcomed them over the years. The mind-control of the clerics over the average Muslim is frightening and total.

This problem is most notable in the smaller European countries such as the Netherlands and Sweden, where a backlash against Islam is growing because of the strict Islamic laws forbidding mingling with the non-Muslim citizens of a country. In short, Muslims do not fit in. They are not allowed to fit in. The religious leaders lose their total control of the people if those people are allowed to see and experience the freedom that others enjoy. This is why Islam loathes democracy. Democracy steals the power of the Islamic leaders. It gives the people the right to think for themselves and thinking people might start to question their laws. Free people will question the absolute authority and power of the Islamic leaders over every aspect of their lives from birth to often violent death.

These days, it seems that anyone who speaks out against Islam runs the risk of being murdered, as in the case of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh who was shot, stabbed, and then had his throat slit by a radical Muslim in the Netherlands. Van Gogh had made documentaries exposing the brutality directed at women under Islam. Now, mosques and Muslim schools have been burned and the normally peaceful Dutch are considering closing their borders at the very least and perhaps even expelling Muslims from their country. As one Dutch citizen said on a blog, ‘‘This country is a free country but we can?t even speak anymore without wondering if some Muslim will murder us.’’ The hate and unrest towards the followers of Islam is growing. It is just a rumble now, but it will get louder as the killing and bombing continues across Europe.

A recent report on Fox News showed the hostility growing between the Swedes and their Muslim population. There are Muslim areas where firefighters and emergency personnel will not enter without a police escort because they will be attacked. Firefighters attempting to put out a fire in a mosque were stoned. The anger between these two forces in Sweden is growing and the most liberal country in Europe is contemplating the same action as the Netherlands. It seems Muslims feel their neighborhoods are not a part of Sweden anymore but theirs, to do with as they see fit. The Swedish government does not see it that way. In those pockets of Islamic rule, poverty is common, unemployment is high, and the clerics foment hate and point fingers of blame on the evil West for Muslims’ lot in life.

In France, which has the largest Muslim population in Europe, Islamic clerics openly troll the streets seeking restless young men to indoctrinate and send out to kill for Islam. They weed out the weaklings by having them view videos of the actual torture and beheadings of human beings complete with the screams of pain and all blood and gore of a nightmare. They watch Islamic ‘‘snuff films.’’ This is what will be expected of them as ‘‘warriors’’ of Allah.

Here in the United States we have a different set of problems. America is just too large for Islam to overpower by reproduction. It has also been impossible to isolate its followers from the American population and American Muslims are far less likely to follow the path of death and destruction. Here, they take a different tact.

Radical Islam is rampant in the prisons, converting the worst of the worst so that when they leave prison they are unleashed on society as pre-programmed, radical Islamic killing machines. On the outside they appear as average Americans which allow them to move about the country unencumbered and overlooked. These killing machines wait for their orders to kill and terrorize, cared for and protected by the radical Islamic element within our own borders.

Muslims live in the past where they had their glory days of conquest and power. They often refer to the Crusades, which ended around 1300, as if they happened last year. I am constantly reminded of Wounded Knee and American slavery. Wounded Knee took place in 1890 and slavery ended in the 1860s.

Muslim writers love to point out the Spanish Inquisition, which was an over-reaction to the conquests of Islam in Spain and was just as much political as religious. The Inquisition officially ended in 1834. What they fail to mention is that it was not only Muslims that were persecuted, but Jews and Protestants as well. Muslims always see themselves as the only victims of injustice in the world. Muslims also fail to mention that the Pope tried to intervene and stop the Inquisition but was unable to exert his power on the political machine.

We Catholics look at this period in our history with shame, not pride. Belief in God or Jesus cannot be forced on someone; it must come from the heart. Forced conversion is not done out of love, but fear. Islam can control one’s body, but it cannot control one’s thoughts. Converts that are forced will not stay with Islam. They will leave it at the first opportunity.

This is knowledge that has escaped the Islamics. As they condemn the Spanish Inquisition, Islam is doing the same right now in countries such as Sudan. What Muslims are doing in Sudan is far worse than the Spanish Inquisition. Humanitarian groups estimate that since 1983, an estimated 2 million people have died from war and related famine in Sudan at the hands of the Islamic leaders. Anyone refusing to denounce Jesus and accept Islam is executed. Rape is used as a weapon. It seems that all modern-day Islam needs is a coliseum with some lions. Trapped in the past, Muslims call the coalition forces ‘‘crusaders.’’

Since the attack on 9/11 here in the United States, the enemy has been exposed. The havens of safety in Afghanistan and Iraq have been taken from the Islamics. In its fury, Islam has made many mistakes. The attacks in Spain and in Bali and murders in the Netherlands and elsewhere have made the world realize that Islam is not just the enemy of America, but the enemy of the entire free world.

Some people were foolishly saying that America deserved to be attacked but when death came to their shores, they were taken aback. They had welcomed Muslims with open arms and this is how they are repaid for their kindness? Some countries are instituting laws that make our Patriot Act pale in comparison. Threatening tapes released by Bin Laden have had the opposite effect.

Instead of cowering, the world is beginning to look Islam in the eye and say, emphatically and collectively: ‘‘NO! This will not be allowed.’’ If it was a final crusade that Islam wanted, they have it.

Barbara J. Stock

A little bit radical, but something I’ve always maintained is a logical endpoint for the road we are currently travelling.

Religion and power obviously should not be combined – even if it is my/your religion that might be in charge. However, I might be biased, I’m against anything telling me how I should think.

It is kind of radical but I don’t think too far of the mark based on the current situation.

I don’t care what brand you subscribe to. Any religion that says you need to kill those who aren’t the same as you is bad. It’s about life and the respect for it that defines you.

Easy to say if you don’t believe the almighty is telling you otherwise… :wink:

[quote]vroom wrote:
A little bit radical, but something I’ve always maintained is a logical endpoint for the road we are currently travelling.

Religion and power obviously should not be combined – even if it is my/your religion that might be in charge. However, I might be biased, I’m against anything telling me how I should think.[/quote]

I like this post, vroom. I agree it’s too bad that religion and power are combined in this world, but this is the only way that the gods can exert any influence over us. Think about it: How “alive” would Jesus be without his followers to do what they believe is his bidding? The same is true of Islam. I think it’s a shame that Allah shows his strength through violence so often. But, then again, it has been argued that the Koran is full of rhetoric which allows or even encourages violent acts to be committed… so maybe Allah likes the idea of infidels dying at the hands of his faithful. Not being an expert on the Koran, I can’t rightfully say one way or another. I’m just going off of what I’ve read about the Islamic faith, and its teachings. Is the Koran really all that hateful?

"The Sleeping World Is Awakening to the Dangers of Islam

An Article by Barbara Stock"

What are the main problems that it Barbara Stock states?

"The French and the English are beginning to ask themselves, ‘‘When did this happen? When did 6 million Muslims get here and what are they planning to do?’’

?The number of Muslims is growing at an alarming rate. Muslims immigrated to peaceful, mostly Christian countries in Europe where they had large families that were reasonably safe from the ravages of their own strict religious teachings.?

“This problem is most notable in the smaller European countries such as the Netherlands and Sweden, where a backlash against Islam is growing because of the strict Islamic laws forbidding mingling with the non-Muslim citizens of a country.”

“In short, Muslims do not fit in.”

“These days, it seems that anyone who speaks out against Islam runs the risk of being murdered, as in the case of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh who was shot, stabbed, and then had his throat slit by a radical Muslim in the Netherlands.”

?Now, mosques and Muslim schools have been burned and the normally peaceful Dutch are considering closing their borders at the very least and perhaps even expelling Muslims from their country."

“It is just a rumble now, but it will get louder as the killing and bombing continues across Europe.”

“A recent report on Fox News showed the hostility growing between the Swedes and their Muslim population.”

“In France, which has the largest Muslim population in Europe, Islamic clerics openly troll the streets seeking restless young men to indoctrinate and send out to kill for Islam.”

“If it was a final crusade that Islam wanted, they have it.”

So most of the problems of Islam according to the author lie in Western countries. England, France, Sweden, Holland etc.

But the way to deal with these problems is “a final crusade that Islam wanted”? What uses is a final crusade in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia etc is your problems are not in theses countries?

Surely if the problem lies in countries such as England, France, Holland etc the solution of “the normally peaceful Dutch (who) are considering closing their borders at the very least and perhaps even expelling Muslims from their country” makes a lot more sense and will be much more effective?

The only problem is that it is highly unlikely that the Dutch or any other Western country will be allowed to even consider “closing their borders at the very least and perhaps even expelling Muslims from their country.” After all someone might call you a rude name.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Religion and power obviously should not be combined – even if it is my/your religion that might be in charge. However, I might be biased, I’m against anything telling me how I should think.[/quote]

Would you disagree that a lot of the problems western countries now face are a direct result of the social revolutions of the 50’s and 60’s with their militant secularism?

Is not secularism a religion also? When you have a state or society based on secularism and a lot of other ism?s is the state or society not also telling you how to think?

Bluey,

I don’t agree with your assessment. I think how “you” think is very easily independent of the way the state systems operate.

However, I won’t disagree that some of the earlier attempts to install utopia upon society were naive, misguided and had long term negative consequences that weren’t forseen at the time.

That doesn’t mean that good things cannot be attempted and done, but it does make it hard to come up with good ideas.

First off, who reads what Alan Keyes and his supporters says anyway and actually takes it seriously.

(Granted, I have watched him debate, and listen to him on occasion. He is entertaining with his unconventionally absurd use of logic, but c’mon, even his own party doesn’t dispute that he is completely nuts!)

Hedo,
Islam does not promote violence. Jihad means ‘exerting utmost effort’. It symbolizes, not necessarily a holy war, but a spritual struggle. Striving to improve oneself spritually. A struggle to resist sinful desires.

Now are there radicals and perversions of the interpretation of Islam? Yes, unfortunately there are and they are dangerous.

This is why I strongly favor separation between church and state. I am religious, I am a christian, but I believe that religion corrupts government and government can corrupt the religion. How can you argue with your leader if he claims his policies were directly handed to him from God? You can’t argue with a divinity. That’s why we keep the two separate.

It accomplishes nothing to boast ignorance of the religion. People like Bill O’reilly who go on tv and read verses of the Qaran in an attempt to persuade viewers into thinking it is evil is just wrong. As people have done on this website, Bible verses can be taken out of context or misapplied and appear disturbing. People who promote this sort of arrogant ignorance are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.

Travis-I disagree with your interpetation of the meaning of Jihad. What you describe is a PC translation coined by Westerners.

Regardless of the true meaning of Jihad, or whats really in the Qu’ran, the problem lies in the culture of ignorance cultivated by the clerics.

Look at the situation of young muslim men:

  1. Many muslim areas, particularly palestine, have unemployment rates as high as 70%.

  2. Only men who can support a wife may get married, resulting in wealthy men with several wives and the majority with none.

  3. There’s no pre-marital sex.

  4. You’re brainwashed by clerics to believe that if you kill yourself in Jihad you’ll go straight to heaven where 72 virgins are waiting for you. Not only that, but they “renew” their virginity every day.

Who among us wouldn’t be lining up to blow ourselves up for the cause? The last one proves the point that this is directed at sex-starved young men. Anyone who’s been with a virgin knows its typically not all its cracked up to be in penthouse. Its uncomfortable or painful for the woman and obviously she has no experience. If it were directed at guys who knew anything about sex they’d promise 72 hot porn stars.

This article and topic are something that I have taken a great deal of interest in over the last few years. My curiosity about Islam started a few months before 9/11 when I began working with a very, very devout Muslim. I work in the IT industry and up here in Toronto, Canada it just seems like the IT field has a good proportion of Muslims working in it. Aside from that this guy (I’ll call him Joe-not his real name) and I hit it off and began to talk about a wide range of topics although mostly about Islam, the US and all that. I had never known a Muslim before and I was immediately shocked as to his radical views and his absolulte steadfast and unwavering belief in the supremacy of Islam over all. I went to a Catholic school growing up so I have a good knowledge of the Bible, of God and other religious topics so needless to say Joe and I got into some heated debates about God, morality you name it.

During this time with Joe and having up until that point not read a single book on Islam I learned a number of things. And remember I am getting this 1st hand from a devout Muslim and not from a non-Muslim writer who may add bias.
  1. Islam is the only legitimate religion on earth.

  2. Jews and Christians are seen as “people of the book” because in fact Allah is the God of Abraham and Moses (both legitimate prohets in Islam) however Mohammed is seen as the last and greatest prophet and the Koran as the last and FINAL word of God (Allah)

  3. Religions like Hindi, Buddhism etc are simply pagan religions to Muslims and should be given no respect whatsoever even in a academic or historic sense. This is evidenced by the Taliban firing cannons and destroying at the ancient stone buddhist statues that were in Afghanistan as well as two-thirds of all ancient artifacts because they are “un-islamic”

  4. Islam must spread to every corner of earth because it is God’s gift to humankind

  5. The holy Koran is 100% complete and 100% the word of God there are no errors and no ambiguities. The Koran cannot be criticized, changed in ANY WAY. IT IS PERFECT (his words). Compare this to the Bible or Talmud which is debated, pondered and was added to earlier on of course. Muslims love to show that all the inconsistencies of the bible must mean that it is not truly the final word of God.

  6. The other books of Islam namely the SHARIA give humans a template on how to live in this world. These are the rules on living life as close to the way Mohammed lived his life 1400 years ago. Some of the details and nuances are truly amazing.

  7. The Sharia is the highest law of the land. No law created by man like the Charter of Rights, Bill of Rights, Un declarations or the consititution of any country can every come close to being more right, just or perfect than the Sharia.

  8. Muslims want Sharia law to be the law of the entire earth because it is perfect (his words again)

  9. Early on Islam spread through the Middle East and Europe like wild-fire within a short time half of Africa, all of the Middle East, half of Europe, India, Persia were all under it’s control. If it were not for external forces at play Islam would have engulfed the entire world. The original spirit of those early years of expansion has never gone away. They still want to expand.

  10. When a country was faced with defeat by the hands of invading Muslim forces the conquered were given 3 CHOICES as stated in the KORAN they were 1) Accept Islam and convert
    2) Do not accept Islam and pay a tax from now on (called “Jizya”) and also live as second class citizens in Islamic society (as a “dhimmi”) the restricitions placed upon you could fill a website so maybe in part 2
    3)last choice is battle and death

  11. Islam and democracy do not mix and CANNOT coexist (his words). Democracy entails people having freedom to make choices on various aspects of their lives. Islam entails giving up your personal freedom and “submitting” to God by following to the letter the KORAN AND THE SHARIA. Islam has no desire for democracy and does not view it as a “good” like we do.

I will conitnue with what I learned in Part II but I wanted to add that all of the above points were later confirmed by other muslims as well as my own reading and research. As you read the article if you want to get a true sense of the mindset of Islam you should really think back to the middle ages in Europe as well as the 1600-1700’s in North America where the Church had absolute control over the populations and native Americans and Africans were seen as savages that needed to be saved through Christianity. This is how Islam views the non-Islamic world.

On what hedo wrote:
That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. It’s a product of the people, not the religion. One of the nicest, most sincere people I’ve ever met is a Palistinian that came to my high school. The whole situation is really complex, and Barbara Stock is either a bigot, ignorant, or stupid.

Well I didn’t write it. I just posted it. Why don’t you refute some of her opinions with facts.

For example are you saying that since one nice Palestinian went to your high school we should just overlook the state sponsored terrorism that is a cornerstone of PLO strategy.

Sure it’s about people. And a lot of people seem to be following the same idealogy…then it becomes a movement, a religion a culture etc.

This article is perhaps some of the most intellectually dishonest hogwash I had the misfortune to read since Bernard Lewis and Samuel Huntington. It’s reductionist to assume that Islam consists of only one viewpoint. In reality its more accurate to speak of Islams. I wholeheartly agree that Bin Laden’s dream of theocracy is a real danger. However, there are many peaceful Muslims out in the world. To claim Islam is a danger because of it’s radical element is analogous to stating that Christianity should be abolished because of the Christian Identity movement.

Sorry dude, I was trying to quote your quote of her article, and I deleted it for some reason and left that “On what hedo wrote” part.

Well for refuting it with facts, you agree that it is a product of the people. There are peaceful sects of Islam just as there are violent sects. The Middle East is a mess, and Israel has hardly done anything to make the situation better, they just look out for themselves. Why don’t we say Judaism is a terrible thing? There is plenty of overlap between Christianity and Judaism - Jesus was a Jew after all, so let’s go after Christianity while we’re at it. Why don’t we ban all religions, as they’ve all done violent things? Islam is just the latest big case in the world.

V

I would argue that Palestinians are treated better in Israel then they are in most Arab countries.

If they would renounce terrorism and come to terms with Israel it would be to their benefit as well as Israel’s.

I don’t think the other Arab nations would support this.

[quote]veruvius wrote:
On what hedo wrote:
That is the dumbest shit I’ve ever read. It’s a product of the people, not the religion. One of the nicest, most sincere people I’ve ever met is a Palistinian that came to my high school. The whole situation is really complex, and Barbara Stock is either a bigot, ignorant, or stupid.[/quote]

I’m sure Adolph Hitler would have been one of the nicest Nazis you ever met; insert your own name in your last paragraph.