T Nation

Is Your Pursuit Driven by Joy or Neurosis?

[quote]entheogens wrote:
Sliver wrote:

As long as someone is getting positive results, the reason for their doing it pretty much moot.

I don’t agree with this. One needn’t restrict this to weightlifting but any activity. Now imagine we were talking about our major in college. You want to study music and become a teacher. That’s what gives you joy. Daddy wants you to study to be an accountant and you hate it, but he’s strong-armed you into doing it. Now, you might even make straight As in your accounting studies, but you are miserable. So, your “as long as someone is getting positive results” proclamation isn’t quite right.

The above example could be applied to the case of the neurotic lifter vs the happy lifter.
[/quote]

If someone truly HATES the idea of working out, bodybuilding is not for them, period. They should take up a new hobby and help us reduce the population in the gym so we aren’t standing around waiting on equipment.

That doesn’t mean I need to come into the gym with the mentality that I’m there to strictly have fun.

I look forward to my workouts for many reasons. All of those reasons have to do with me making PROGRESS.

If you are not making progress at all, either find a way to do so or remove yourself from the area.

I could have “fun” playing fucking video games or calling a girl over. I go to the gym for something more than that.

I agree with setting goals, but you also have to be realistic. At some point you are going to peak, and old age will catch up with you. There is a guy in my gym who is 80 years old. No matter how hard he works, he will never be able to move the same weight that he could do in his prime, let alone constantly increase that weight.

Sometimes the best “progress” consists of staving off the effects of old age as long as possible. It doesn’t always mean improving your lifts.

All of that said, I think people sometimes use age as a crutch and we can usually do better than we think we can at a given age.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I agree with setting goals, but you also have to be realistic. At some point you are going to peak, and old age will catch up with you. There is a guy in my gym who is 80 years old. No matter how hard he works, he will never be able to move the same weight that he could do in his prime, let alone constantly increase that weight.

Sometimes the best “progress” consists of staving off the effects of old age as long as possible. It doesn’t always mean improving your lifts.

All of that said, I think people sometimes use age as a crutch and we can usually do better than we think we can at a given age.[/quote]

More people than that waste their youth and then try to make up for it at age 40.

Most of the guys who are over 6’1" in height but claim they are trying hard to stay UNDER 190lbs will fall into that category.

I look a training, as exactly what it states, “training”, now when you have the discipline to put yourself through all the hard work, it somehow crosses over into other parts of your life…

This helps me focus, and i mean really focus on my life, career, school, etc…,

Now that being said, as far as training, yes i will Never be completely satisfied by how i look, but i am constantly reaching smaller goals, that gives me comfort in that im attaining certain characteristics, that others may never come close to.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i hate it. i hate the regimented lifestyle. i hate the self-centeredness it brings. i hate the way its supposed to make you feel better about yourself but instead youre never satisfied.

it has its perks though.

but at least for me i dont do it out of enjoyment. i do it because i feel like i need to - i have to. thats why i give it everything ive got every session and thats why i feel so crushed if i have a shitty session.[/quote]

in retrospect i think this came off a little too dramatic. i think how i should phrase it is i get some kind of satisfaction out of this. it isnt “fun” though. theres nothing fun about squeezing everything youve got with 400 pounds. but there is something satisfying about it. theres something satisfying about walking…or rather staggering out of the weightroom and knowing you pushed yourself.

id say the fun part is the the attention. the looks you get, the compliments and the self-confidence (often cockiness/arrogance) that comes with it.

i feel like through bodybuilding ive been reborn as a person, yea i know it sounds so gimmicky. but really i feel its the single most pursued thing ive done thats given me the most back. and its something im good at too.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i hate it. i hate the regimented lifestyle. i hate the self-centeredness it brings. i hate the way its supposed to make you feel better about yourself but instead youre never satisfied.

it has its perks though.

but at least for me i dont do it out of enjoyment. i do it because i feel like i need to - i have to. thats why i give it everything ive got every session and thats why i feel so crushed if i have a shitty session.

in retrospect i think this came off a little too dramatic. i think how i should phrase it is i get some kind of satisfaction out of this. it isnt “fun” though. theres nothing fun about squeezing everything youve got with 400 pounds. but there is something satisfying about it. theres something satisfying about walking…or rather staggering out of the weightroom and knowing you pushed yourself.

id say the fun part is the the attention. the looks you get, the compliments and the self-confidence (often cockiness/arrogance) that comes with it.

i feel like through bodybuilding ive been reborn as a person, yea i know it sounds so gimmicky. but really i feel its the single most pursued thing ive done thats given me the most back. and its something im good at too.
[/quote]

right on Live, right on.

Yea, some get it, some dont.

Not sure where or how the word “fun” got involved. If one is having fun then theyre probably mucking about.

I would say that those that get it find it a spiritual process, whether they would choose to identify it as such or not. It is a cleansing of sorts, contrasted to how that person would feel if they did forego a workout, or not nail a workout as well as they should. Also spiritual in the sense it helps one connect with what is vital, and makes one a better person. Im not saying one has to be always conscious of these things to experience them.

I bring it up because I dont think everyone that lifts a weight does so for the reason they simply love it, and that because they love it they naturally want to do their best.

Basically the joy or spiritual aspect is an element, one of several perhaps, but if not present, then what replaces it?

What is the point of this post? To discuss why people lift weights? Yo discuss the proper reason why we should be lifting weights?

What is up with all this physco-babble bullshit that has been floating around the forums lately? Who cares why someone lifts? Care about YOURSELF, and set goals for YOURSELF. Never be satisfied with YOURSELF and stay hungry ALWAYS.

Why do people have to complicate things? I can sum up how to bodybuild in a few lines:

-Eat lots of protein/cals, adjust according to how you are gaining
-Do cardio as needed, use it as a means to an end
-Set goals and work to achieve them
-change programs/rep ranges every one in a while
-rest a lot

Motivation is NOT something you can work on. If you are lifting weights in the first place, you are least somewhat motivated. What you make out of yourself in the years to come will show HOW motivated you are.

What is so fucking complicated about this?

What drives me or anybody for that matter to do anything, let alone bodybuilding is a variety of factors, some unconcious, and some concious. To try to pin-point 1 drive that drives a human to bodybuild is very naive to the OP.

Seinix you don’t get it, and that is okay, just lift. Life will go on…for awhile any way.

[quote]Scotacus wrote:

I bring it up because I dont think everyone that lifts a weight does so for the reason they simply love it, and that because they love it they naturally want to do their best.

[/quote]

I agree, but most people do not thrive on discipline or a set routine. It takes a shit load of drive and determination to make it to the gym year after year, truly push yourself, and never quit despite whatever drama life throws at you. Most of these people will quit at the first sign of turbulence, whether that be longer hours at work, moving to a higher educational level or simply getting married. They don’t have it in them to keep pushing through that.

Bodybuilding is not for everyone. 5 years from now, most will look exactly the same or worse. They can’t even comprehend someone who doesn’t quit and takes it to an extreme. That is why most assume any big guy they see was ALWAYS big. If they accepted that they actually worked hard for what they have, they would have to ask themselves why they didn’t push as hard.

That’s another reason people go out of their way on A BODYBUILDING discussion forum to degrade bodybuilding.

We make them look bad.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
i hate it. i hate the regimented lifestyle. i hate the self-centeredness it brings. i hate the way its supposed to make you feel better about yourself but instead youre never satisfied.

it has its perks though.

but at least for me i dont do it out of enjoyment. i do it because i feel like i need to - i have to. thats why i give it everything ive got every session and thats why i feel so crushed if i have a shitty session.

in retrospect i think this came off a little too dramatic. i think how i should phrase it is i get some kind of satisfaction out of this. it isnt “fun” though. theres nothing fun about squeezing everything youve got with 400 pounds. but there is something satisfying about it. theres something satisfying about walking…or rather staggering out of the weightroom and knowing you pushed yourself.

id say the fun part is the the attention. the looks you get, the compliments and the self-confidence (often cockiness/arrogance) that comes with it.

i feel like through bodybuilding ive been reborn as a person, yea i know it sounds so gimmicky. but really i feel its the single most pursued thing ive done thats given me the most back. and its something im good at too.
[/quote]

I feel similar in that I’m reborn as a person. I’m channelling my dedication that I have to training to every aspect of my life and it’s working. I’m setting things in motion…doing…acting instead of just thinking about it. I’ve decided what my goals are and I’m completely cutting out everything else like TV and video games (you don’t know how hard it was to cancel my World of Warcraft account lol) and will not stop until my goals are met.

As for training…I ALWAYS have fun. Yes it’s hard work, but I truly enjoy pushing myself harder every week and seeing the results and sense of accomplishment. I know without a doubt that I will not look like I do now in 5 years and I will never stop.

To the person asking why make this so complicated…I don’t think sharing ideas and thoughts with some good people is an attempt to complicate things. It sure beats a vapid discussion about how cable crossovers are the holy grail of chest building exercises

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Scotacus wrote:

I bring it up because I dont think everyone that lifts a weight does so for the reason they simply love it, and that because they love it they naturally want to do their best.

I agree, but most people do not thrive on discipline or a set routine. It takes a shit load of drive and determination to make it to the gym year after year, truly push yourself, and never quit despite whatever drama life throws at you.

]Most of these people will quit at the first sign of turbulence, whether that be longer hours at work, moving to a higher educational level or simply getting married. They don’t have it in them to keep pushing through that.

Bodybuilding is not for everyone. 5 years from now, most will look exactly the same or worse. They can’t even comprehend someone who doesn’t quit and takes it to an extreme.

That is why most assume any big guy they see was ALWAYS big. If they accepted that they actually worked hard for what they have, they would have to ask themselves why they didn’t push as hard.

That’s another reason people go out of their way on A BODYBUILDING discussion forum to degrade bodybuilding.

We make them look bad. [/quote]

I agree with alot of these statements. Like most people assume a big guy was always that way. Your last statement however “we make them look bad” may not be the best way to look at it.

I think a more positive, and logical way of looking at it is, “We make ourselves look good”. People dont see a big guy walking down the street and say “Wow that guy next to him is so small”. “We make them feel inferior” might be a term you could also replace with “We make them look bad”

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Bodybuilding is not for everyone. 5 years from now, most will look exactly the same or worse. They can’t even comprehend someone who doesn’t quit and takes it to an extreme. That is why most assume any big guy they see was ALWAYS big.

If they accepted that they actually worked hard for what they have, they would have to ask themselves why they didn’t push as hard.

[/quote]

Actually, in the discussion under Berardi’s article today a question/response summed up what Im saying PERFECTLY: a question pertained to how long it took someone to drop certain number of pounds.

Berardi responded excellently: why? are you in a race? Iow, what diff, if you are committed and serious, doesnt matter if its 6 months or 24 months.

This same attitude I notice alot on this forum: people asking questions that all basically seem to be seeking the STRAIGHTEST line from point A to Ronnie. You read between the lines its like theyre asking “how can I get real buff, impress my friends, impress myself, maybe even get laid, as soon as possible so I dont have to keep doing this shit”.

It never crossed my mind to ask questions like “how long will this take (how long do i have to do this for)”.