T Nation

Is TRT Worth It? Long-Term Studies on TRT/HCG?

I am currently taking 8 units (I think that’s the conversion) of hcg twice a week. I didn’t have low test but it was on the lower end. I also take serms every day.

Now I feel good. My blood work is good. My last three testosterone results were 39,26,33 (dropped dose to 8 after the 39). So that would be 749 to 1123. These results were taken from blood drawn between my two longest doses so they would be higher two days before.

Anyway. I feel good. All my bloodwork is good (RBC. Wbc. Etc…)

I just wonder still if it’s healthy to have your body produce hormones that it doesn’t want to on it own? Are there long-term studies for the prolonged use of trt or hcg?

Am I unknowingly sacrificing my long term health or life expectancy for some more energy and muscle mass right now?

What does everyone think?

The other option being low test life?

No question whether its worth it or not.

I wouldn’t stay on a SERM indefinitely, but TRT is worth it.

Is it worth it to return to the state you were in before treatment? My body doesn’t retain enough iron or potassium, if I were to allow nature to take its course I would eventually die iron severe iron and potassium deficiency.

High testosterone is cardioprotective and low testosterone damaging. There is definite proof what will happen if testosterone is lower than normal, so you would expect opposite results with optimal testosterone.

Managed healthcare and their silly reference ranges do not account for age when looking at your testosterone levels, so in reality a man who is 21 or 90 scoring in the low normal ranges is perfectly alright, except is it most definitely not! Those working in managed healthcare seem to be the most clueless regarding normal testosterone.

No there are not, but there are long term studies of what happens when testosterone is low.

Testosterone and the Heart

Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T levels in men may increase their risk of developing coronary artery disease (CAD), metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. Reduced T levels in men with congestive heart failure (CHF) portends a poor prognosis and is associated with increased mortality.

Studies have reported a reduced CV risk with higher endogenous T concentration, improvement of known CV risk factors with T therapy, and reduced mortality in T-deficient men who underwent T replacement therapy versus untreated men. Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has been shown to improve myocardial ischemia in men with CAD, improve exercise capacity in patients with CHF, and improve serum glucose levels.

Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:

The locally weighted regression showed that total testosterone levels of 440 and 480 ng/dL were associated with increased Framingham CVD risk and an increased probability of increased hsCRP, respectively. Men with sexual dysfunction (poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido) had significantly greater CVD risk.

My estrogen was 315. If I didn’t block the receptors they would all be absorbed or whatever

Thx for all that info. To clarify being on the lower end. Range for average is 10-30 and I was 15.

I am just getting cold feet and glad u guys reassursd me.

So 15 nmol/L is 432 ng/dL, well below the cutoff point for cardiovascular disease. The problem is the matter of Free T, Total T is bound to SHBG and not bioavailable, Free T is in circulation. I have seen a man on T-Nation with a Total T of 1995 ng/dL or 69 nmol/L, his SHBG was 246 and Free T dreadfully low.

This guy would need extremely high Total T (3000-4000 ng/dL) to ever have enough Free T in circulation. Did your doctor even look at your SHBG or Free T?

Yes. I don’t remember what those results were. But my last lab had free test of 573. The lab says average was 115-577

If I remember correctly I think he said after my first lab that my free was decent but they weren’t binding. I could be wrong though if that doesn’t make sense.

Replied above.

@systemlord
What are you using to supplement for the potassium deficiency?

Potassium citrate from Pure Encapsules.

Someday HCG will stop working, when it does it’s time for TRT. It could be many years before this happens, testicles cannot function optimally forever. Free T doesn’t bind, Total T is bound and some T is weakly bound to albumin.

Basically you are doing HCG monotherapy which is an alternative of TRT.
In my opinion if you feel good it is better than TRT because you keep fertility and testicles working.
If I start TRT for sure I will begin with HCG mono.

@physiolojik explained that hcg taken for years can lose its effect on fertility and should be used only when you are ready to conceive for best results. That’s while on TRT so not sure if that applies while not on TRT. There is also a thread all about the other good effects of taking hcg while on trt. One thing you see pretty often is people taking hcg monotherapy usually don’t last long on it.

What is the reason for not lasting ling on it? It also starts to loose its effect?

Search hcg + physiolojik and read what he posted. It’s in depth. I would bet @unreal24278 could explain it as well

I think long is different for everyone. More so, if you stop u go back to baseline or pretty close, which is why I chose it. Where as with trt it makes ur body stop producing its own so if you go on trt ur on for life.

You can stop TRT at any time, actually. If you want to run PCT or something and see where you’re at. It’s not like you’ve burned a bridge. It’s not any more permanent than running HCG

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Does physiolojik even post here anymore? I think someone tried to bust him( you know so-called TRT doctor/recreational Testersterone user) a little while back. I haven’t seen him postings ever since someone turned him into the Ohio state medical board.

He opened a new practice in Colorado that has gotten really busy so he posted a couple months ago that he’s taking a hiatus because he just doesn’t have the time. I saw that crazy back and forth with the supposed UCLA doc getting owned and trying to dox him. I don’t think that was why he left though. At least that’s not one of the reasons he specified. But yeah that “doc” seemed full of shit