T Nation

Is This Training Dangerous?

So I have been working out for a while now just recently started a real program though…any who I have a friend who has made some great gains as has gotten lean…he follows t-dawg 2.0 as his diet but, his training routine is pretty different from what is usually advised.

He does a type of body part split where for example on mondays he will workout his chest and triceps, but instead of really counting reps or exercises he just lifts; changes rep ranges between sets or exercises but pretty much lifts until he is tired, not exhausted. Is there a danger to doing this?

[quote]determined88 wrote:
So I have been working out for a while now just recently started a real program though…any who I have a friend who has made some great gains as has gotten lean…he follows t-dawg 2.0 as his diet but, his training routine is pretty different from what is usually advised.

He does a type of body part split where for example on mondays he will workout his chest and triceps, but instead of really counting reps or exercises he just lifts; changes rep ranges between sets or exercises but pretty much lifts until he is tired, not exhausted. Is there a danger to doing this?[/quote]

Maybe I’m reading your post wrong, but if you consider getting bigger and stronger dangerous, then yes.

know it just that the mods change the titles…what I mean is that is this a smart way to train? he doesn’t keep a log or really count sets he just lifts.

on mondays chest and triceps he will do something like this:
1.flat bench press 5 sets, changes the reps
2. decline bench press 5 sets changes the reps
3. incline bench press
4. pec deck
5. tricep rope pull
6. db tricep extension

He keeps rest short and has made some great progres.

Me on the other hand sticks to the advice given on here, doing full body workouts ,4 compounds 2 isolations and have not made nearly the same progress. whats up with that?

nothing wrong with lifting intuitively.

Well, whats your diet?

Well I am following TBT on mon, wed, and fri. On tues, thurs and sat I am doing 100 reps to bigger muscles(chest and shoulders) and I run 30 min on lifting days, 45 on non-lifting days. I am also following t-dawg 2.0

No not at all. I’d say it’s a very safe way to train.

The only danger is that buy not counting reps, he won’t know what he needs to do next time to progress, so gains probably won’t be as quick as they could be.

really…is it not overtraining or if not, not well balanced? it seems like a good way to train because he never has to worry if someone is on a machine he needs because he just uses another one. He never has a program just lifts some days he will do 5 exercises some days 8 some days 3 sets per exercises other days up to 8. I posted a routine he does on here a while back and people where criticizing it saying it was not well balanced, that his front delts where getting more work and that he was not going to develop evenly but he looks ok to me.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
No not at all. I’d say it’s a very safe way to train.

The only danger is that buy not counting reps, he won’t know what he needs to do next time to progress, so gains probably won’t be as quick as they could be.

[/quote]

I told him this one time and he just said that he does not worry about it because if he feels he is lacking or that he is not that tired he will just throw in some more reps or sets.

he may be an easy gainer and you a hard gainer. You can’t judge a program based on what success one person has. You have to have a larger sample size than one. If it works for him, it works. Maybe he would be doing better with a different program. Maybe not.

Also, you don’t have to do the same order every day. You can do a set of benches, shoulder presses, benches, then skip presses and do something else - as long as you keep a log, it’s the same thing (essentially) that you’re already doing. Just make sure, at the end of the day, that you can honestly say you are lifting as hard as you can.

[quote]determined88 wrote:
So I have been working out for a while now just recently started a real program though…any who I have a friend who has made some great gains as has gotten lean…he follows t-dawg 2.0 as his diet but, his training routine is pretty different from what is usually advised.

He does a type of body part split where for example on mondays he will workout his chest and triceps, but instead of really counting reps or exercises he just lifts; changes rep ranges between sets or exercises but pretty much lifts until he is tired, not exhausted. Is there a danger to doing this?[/quote]

I’ve found it the best way to train. I don’t count reps either. I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it. During the actual lift, my concentration is not on numbers. That’s as big of a distraction as is watching television while your lifting… to me anyway. The nervous system should not take priority in thinking. Therefore, sometimes when loading or deloading I actually don’t know how much is on the bar… especially with stripper sets. I am not counting reps either. I have never payed attention to tempo either. Muscles are there to contract and move weight… I spend my time on more improtant things such as the vision of the lift and concentrating on the muscle actually contracting and expanding.

Putting the mind into the muscle has worked very well for me. This may not be a good idea for everyone, but if you are a spiritual person or someone that can meditate… this might be a good way for you to go about exercising. If you arn’t very focused anyway, my methodology will do nothing for you. This takes years of practice anyway, to establish a mind-muscle connection between your muscles. The calves are very difficult to establish because of a low amount of connective nerves to them; not alot of pathways back to the brain to feel them… this is why so many people have trouble developing them. That, and they don’t understand the toughness of this muscle and what it takes to make it grow.

Dangerous? No! Usefull? Well that depends on who does it. I would say a person with great focus will benefit from this and those without focus, then it probably will do nothing for them.

I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?

[quote]determined88 wrote:
I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?[/quote]

I think the point you are missing is that there isn’t a thing wrong for someone “experienced” to train like this. If some beginner who was not familiar with weight training watched me train, they might think the same thing. I don’t have to write anything down. I have been doing this long enough that I can make changes during a workout if I feel they are necessary. I may do a different set of reps or sets one day than another. That is because I know my own body. It does not mean I am just lifting weights with no strategy in mind. It may not look organized to you, but if it wasn’t working, I wouldn’t have made any progress.

Beginners don’t know shit yet, so of course they need an outline to go by. I have never written down what i do in the gym aside from a basic skeleton I made years ago as far as what body parts I would be training.

[quote]determined88 wrote:
I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?[/quote]

Pretty much what Prof X said there… its mostly experience. I think once you’ve been doing this for a long time, the term “listen to your body” applies. Beginners probably need a map layed out in front of them with logbooks. Veterans can almost think their way to hypertrophy and strength.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
determined88 wrote:
I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?

I think the point you are missing is that there isn’t a thing wrong for someone “experienced” to train like this. If some beginner who was not familiar with weight training watched me train, they might think the same thing. I don’t have to write anything down. I have been doing this long enough that I can make changes during a workout if I feel they are necessary. I may do a different set of reps or sets one day than another. That is because I know my own body. It does not mean I am just lifting weights with no strategy in mind. It may not look organized to you, but if it wasn’t working, I wouldn’t have made any progress.

Beginners don’t know shit yet, so of course they need an outline to go by. I have never written down what i do in the gym aside from a basic skeleton I made years ago as far as what body parts I would be training.[/quote]

There’s one thing that caught my attention in this post and that was

‘That is because I know my own body.’

I dont know how many times I’ve posted saying you can follow all these super great programmes that people develop, but if you haven’t worked out what exercises/reps give you the best gains, then your always gonna be chasing your tail.

Know what works for your body and I’ts the same with nutrition as well.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
determined88 wrote:
I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?

I think the point you are missing is that there isn’t a thing wrong for someone “experienced” to train like this. If some beginner who was not familiar with weight training watched me train, they might think the same thing. I don’t have to write anything down. I have been doing this long enough that I can make changes during a workout if I feel they are necessary. I may do a different set of reps or sets one day than another. That is because I know my own body. It does not mean I am just lifting weights with no strategy in mind. It may not look organized to you, but if it wasn’t working, I wouldn’t have made any progress.

Beginners don’t know shit yet, so of course they need an outline to go by. I have never written down what i do in the gym aside from a basic skeleton I made years ago as far as what body parts I would be training.[/quote]

so even as a beginner you did not use specific programs?.O by the way prof x 5’11 at 270 lbs is really impressive do you have any pics I can see. I read thae they use to be posted.

[quote]determined88 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
determined88 wrote:
I have set rep specifics that I judge for load specifications, but thats it.

go heavy what do you mean by this?

I think the point you are missing is that there isn’t a thing wrong for someone “experienced” to train like this. If some beginner who was not familiar with weight training watched me train, they might think the same thing. I don’t have to write anything down. I have been doing this long enough that I can make changes during a workout if I feel they are necessary. I may do a different set of reps or sets one day than another. That is because I know my own body. It does not mean I am just lifting weights with no strategy in mind. It may not look organized to you, but if it wasn’t working, I wouldn’t have made any progress.

Beginners don’t know shit yet, so of course they need an outline to go by. I have never written down what i do in the gym aside from a basic skeleton I made years ago as far as what body parts I would be training.

so even as a beginner you did not use specific programs?.O by the way prof x 5’11 at 270 lbs is really impressive do you have any pics I can see. I read thae they use to be posted.

[/quote]

The last sentence in that last post explained that I had a basic set of body parts and exercises planned out years ago. Yes, as a beginner, I went by a plan. I think that lasted all of a few months. Everyone doesn’t pick up on how their body responds at the same time. This is why there are people claiming to have been lifting for 10 years yet they still don’t pass for anyone who visits a weight room regularly.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
determined88 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
determined88 wrote:

I think that lasted all of a few months. Everyone doesn’t pick up on how their body responds at the same time. This is why there are people claiming to have been lifting for 10 years yet they still don’t pass for anyone who visits a weight room regularly. [/quote]

You may have just nailed it.

Someone wrote in the 7 eating habits thread, "You cannot possible get a clear picture of where to go unless you have an accurate picture of where you?ve been. You cannot track progressive training or eating without keeping records. "

Keeping a log is one of many habits I have picked up since I began visiting here. (Others could fill a thread of their own. Thanks T-Nation!) I think tracking each set has sped up my progress over the last 4-5 months. I very possibly could be 10-years-of-non-progress guy without it.

I look at my little book every workout to remind myself of how little I am really putting up, and more importantly, to remind myself that progress IS possible. Maybe someday I’ll “outgrow” it, but for now I consider it crucial.

In the beginning, everything works. Short-term success does not guarantee long-term success. Most people hit a brick 4-6 months and progress stops. A ton of people never push past this barrier, and they either give up or spin their wheels for years.

Personally, I find keeping a log helpful for tracking progress. It keeps me honest. I regard it as the difference between a mirror and a photograph. Some people can look in the mirror and can judge their progress quite well. But I know that my mind distorts what I see. You just have to know that about yourself.

For most people I think the best results are somewhere in the middle. Follow a plan but listen to your body. Is the plan working? If not, adjust. That’s really all you can do. If you have a plan and results are suboptimal, you can play with the parameters and find out what’s wrong. If you’re just winging it, it’s hard to diagnose poor results. Eventually, after using this process for a long term, you’ll have yourself pretty well figured out and you’ll be beyond plans.

I find this is true for most of life’s endeavors. In the beginning, you walk inside the lines and learn the ropes. But eventually you break free and carve your own way based on what you’ve learned.

You can still keep a log of your ‘instinctive training’

I never kept a log for the first 15+ years of training, now I don’t lift without one.