T Nation

Is This Mad?


#1

Ok I can't resist the temptation to tinker. So I've come up with a plan. It might sound a little crazy, but Im just curious as to whether people think it will work or not!!

I'm thinking of running the Coan/Phillipi deadlift cycle AND westside at the same time.... So here's my plan....

"DE" DAY
Coan Deadlifts - suit w/ straps up
Coan "speed deadlift" - suit w/ straps down
Coan assitance

ME DAY
DE Box squats 6x2 (50,55,60% wave)
Box squats*
Squats (140kg** x max reps, 1 set)
Abs

*Box Squats to be cycled thru 3 different heights every 3 weeks. Starting with above par. in w1-3, then par. w4-6, then below par w7-9. Week 10 is test week, so I'd take that off.

The box squats would be done 3x5 in the first week. The top set of 5 in week two and top set of 3 in week three for all heights.

**Possibly moving to 150kg after 5 weeks.

In my head this all make sense...

ME Day = squat day. Lots of squat volume is usually good for my squat

"DE" Day = deadlift day. The Coan/Philipi cycle's pretty infamous at this stage so it'd be cool to try it out.

Am I mad?


#2

Two Words:

DO IT!

Honestly, if you can keep up w/the volume, all the better. Seems to me this is entirely possible.

I have a few questions.

  1. How heavy are you starting out w/ box squats?

  2. How much is the change in week 1 to week 3 and from week 3 to week 4? I ask this b/c its a short amount of time to get used to a high box, then transferring to a lower box.

  3. What are the box heights?

  4. What do you mean by this? "top set of 3 in week three for all heights. " I thought you’d only do that one box height on week 3,6,9 when you’d do that top triple. You’ll be doing all heights those weeks?

If the deads don’t kill your back, it sounds like on heck of a program.

And no, you’re not mad, but maybe after this routine, you’ll be a few steps closer. :wink:


#3

That is savage! Are you going to make an effort to do some extra recovery stuff?
How many days are you going to train then just 3?


#4

1 - Starting with a box as low as it goes (2-3 inches below), I did 170x3 off it last week, probably do 180-190x1 this week. I won’t be starting this until the second week of May, so I may start around 150kg 3x5, perhaps lower.

2 - I guess I’d end up with 175-180x3 on week 3 on the low box, probably start with 150-160 3x5 on week 4 and end up with 180-190 x3 on week 6 on the par. box, start with 170-180 3x5 on week 7 and finish with 200x3 on the high box perhaps.

Those numbers are complete guesses tho.

3 - 2 inches below, parallel, 2 inches above

4 - week 3 = max triple below parallel, week 6 = max triple at par. and week 9 = max tripl above par.

I’d be doing the deads sumo, and the SLDL’s and GM’s narrow stance.

Any other considerations or issues I’m likely to face?


#5

[quote]Dave284 wrote:
That is savage! Are you going to make an effort to do some extra recovery stuff?
How many days are you going to train then just 3?[/quote]

4x, possibly 5.

2 upper days, regular ME and DE

1 assitance day (biceps and lat width)

Since I basically have nothing to do but train this summer I might hit the sauna, contrast showers and hydro pool afterwards on some of the days. I guess I won’t know until I get started what I need to be doing to recover!


#6

curious:

what is “coan assistance”.


#7

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
curious:

what is “coach assistance”.[/quote]

COAN assistance, as prescribed by the program… namely this for the first 4 weeks;

3 rounds of…
Stiff-leg deadlift: 8 reps
Bent over row: 8 reps
Underhand (reverse) grip lat pulldown: 8 reps
Arched back good morning: 8 reps

Resting 90 secs between exercises, and 3 mins between circuits.


#8

This is very doable. I did somethign similar last year. I started to type it out, but doubt anyones interested. Here is my advice tho, BE VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH YOUR “DESIRED MAX” when setting your working weights. I would advise that you go no higher than a 10 lb pr, and you might even want to go with your pr as the desired max, in order to better ensure that you’ll hit your weights throughout the program


#9

[quote]Hanley wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
curious:

what is “coach assistance”.

COAN assistance, as prescribed by the program… namely this for the first 4 weeks;

3 rounds of…
Stiff-leg deadlift: 8 reps
Bent over row: 8 reps
Underhand (reverse) grip lat pulldown: 8 reps
Arched back good morning: 8 reps

Resting 90 secs between exercises, and 3 mins between circuits.[/quote]

I though tI typed Coan. I guess I need to sleep more. haha.

Thanks.


#10

I say do it. If it works great. If it doesn’t, well then you learned something. Its a win win in my opinion.


#11

I hope you’re eating to gain buddy. That’s all I have to say. And I hope you spend a fortune on fish oil to keep inflammation down. Good luck man.


#12

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
This is very doable. I did somethign similar last year. I started to type it out, but doubt anyones interested. Here is my advice tho, BE VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH YOUR “DESIRED MAX” when setting your working weights. I would advise that you go no higher than a 10 lb pr, and you might even want to go with your pr as the desired max, in order to better ensure that you’ll hit your weights throughout the program[/quote]

Hmmm… thanks for that. I was looking at pulling 272.5kg after it. So it would be about a 25lb PR. BUTTTT I dunno how much of a “true” PR it’d be since I pretty much stiff leg sumo’d 260 last week in my first time back i nthe suit. I reckon I’m good for 265 with some form work. So I guess I’m in the region you’re talking about…

I’ve a had a quick look thru the cycle with 272.5kg (600lb) as the goal, weeks 4 and 7 are 245kg x2 which I’ve done, week 8’s 260 x2 which at the moment loks VERY hard, but I assume after 8 weeks of training it will be doable. And if I can do that then there’s no reason I can’t single 265 in week 9 and 272.5 in week 10.

Does it sound doable??

What sorta gains did you get when you did your thing btw??


#13

The old Coan cycle helped me hit 272.5, your not far off now, looks like it could work, the only way is up.


#14

Im interested to see how you do with this. It definitely looks interesting. Im assuming you will be keeping a log of your training here when you do this?


#15

[quote]Vz wrote:
The old Coan cycle helped me hit 272.5, your not far off now, looks like it could work, the only way is up.[/quote]

I saw the results from the weekend. Looks like you had a good day. Congrats!

Did you not squat to save energy for the 3x bodyweight pull?


#16

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Im interested to see how you do with this. It definitely looks interesting. Im assuming you will be keeping a log of your training here when you do this?[/quote]

Same log place, same log channel.

“Tackling Sheiko” should really be called… “Tackling Sheiko, Smolov, Progressive overload, conjugate periodisation, Ed Coan AND a hole host of other shit”

Doesn’t have the same ring to it tho.


#17

[quote]Hanley wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
This is very doable. I did somethign similar last year. I started to type it out, but doubt anyones interested. Here is my advice tho, BE VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH YOUR “DESIRED MAX” when setting your working weights. I would advise that you go no higher than a 10 lb pr, and you might even want to go with your pr as the desired max, in order to better ensure that you’ll hit your weights throughout the program

Hmmm… thanks for that. I was looking at pulling 272.5kg after it. So it would be about a 25lb PR. BUTTTT I dunno how much of a “true” PR it’d be since I pretty much stiff leg sumo’d 260 last week in my first time back i nthe suit. I reckon I’m good for 265 with some form work. So I guess I’m in the region you’re talking about…

I’ve a had a quick look thru the cycle with 272.5kg (600lb) as the goal, weeks 4 and 7 are 245kg x2 which I’ve done, week 8’s 260 x2 which at the moment loks VERY hard, but I assume after 8 weeks of training it will be doable. And if I can do that then there’s no reason I can’t single 265 in week 9 and 272.5 in week 10.

Does it sound doable??

What sorta gains did you get when you did your thing btw??[/quote]

One cycle I did deadlift for high reps (10-12) and all the phillipi coan accessory stuff. That worked out pretty well, and my deadlift for reps (whihc I had in a contest) went up.

Then I used the regular programs percentages for teh doubles and triples, but lowered the weight for the speed work, since if i’d lifted at their poundages there would’ve been nothing “speedy” about it. So i am guilty of manipulating the program, but heres what happened. Mid-May I pulled 545 EASY, mid June I pulled 500x6 (well, 5.9999 but the bar got caught on my rehband shorts and I couldnt hitch it up, but it woulda been good for at least 6 without thsoe shorts.) According to Jackal’s gym max calculator, 500x6 is equal to 599 for a 1RM, so I thought I WAS being conservative by going for 600. I first missed weight in week friggin 4 (mid july, started right after my contest) which was supposed to be 540 for a single or a double, I couldnt pull it once. The very next week I pulled 485 for a single, it was supposed to be a double. In the past I’ve been overly quick to pull the plug, changing everything, etc. This time I said I was gonna stay the course. Week 6 I was able to pull 505 for a double, week 7 I didnt even try 545x2 (which is what I was supposed to do) becasue of how warmups felt. I pulled the plug on the whole experiment because the weights only went up the last 3 weeks, and I had no reason to believe I would get them.

So there you have it, I regressed. Maybe it was pulling from the floor every week, maybe it was an overly agressive number, i dont know, and im too irritated to figure it out now. just thinking about this debacle puts me in a bad mood. if tehres anythign else you wanna know, just ask, I’ll come back later once I’ve calmed down … although it’s Tax Day here in america, so that may have to wait til tomorrow :slight_smile:


#18

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Vz wrote:
The old Coan cycle helped me hit 272.5, your not far off now, looks like it could work, the only way is up.

I saw the results from the weekend. Looks like you had a good day. Congrats!

Did you not squat to save energy for the 3x bodyweight pull?[/quote]

Cheers, ah could have gone better, would have liked to win overall on the dead,

not really it was a toss up between the 2, i haven’t really trained them since i missed the comp in gorey, only got back into the swing on things about 6 weeks ago, did sheiko for 5 weeks leading up to it, the old back cramped up on my second bench so left it at that, was hoping for 141.


#19

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
Then I used the regular programs percentages for teh doubles and triples, but lowered the weight for the speed work, since if i’d lifted at their poundages there would’ve been nothing “speedy” about it. [/quote]

I’m doing it right now, just did the third workout last night. While your program is probably doable, I don’t think I would use the Coan program for a DE day. I know he considers it speed work, but as KBC said, there is nothing speedy about it. For instance, last night I did 495x2, then the speed sets were 410 6x3. This is based off a projected 585 max. The 6x3 wasn’t overly difficult, but I definitely wouldn’t have called it speed work. In my case, it is exactly what I wanted as I am not used to doing that many reps for the DL, but in your case if you are looking for a true DE day, you should probably alter it some.