T Nation

Is This a Better Split?

OK…How’s this split:

MON: Chest
TUES: Back / Shoulders
WED: Off
THU: Legs
FRI: Biceps / Triceps

I really don’t want to burn myself out by lifting too often, but is once a week really enough? I’m guessing that if you only lift chest once a week that when you do it you’ll really have to beat the crap out of it.

Thanks.

what exactly are you trying to accomplish?

First, define your current iron level. Secondly, then quantify your goals. Bigger, stronger, leaner what have you.
I personally would rather see you add biceps to your chest routine and move shoulder to after legs. Cut it down to whole body in three workouts and each time you hit the gym you do whatever workout follows the last one you did. So you could hit a bodypart 2 times a week every three weeks or so. Really no need to spend day on arms

Two things stand out:

Since you use shoulders and triceps when you do chest you are doing shoulders and triceps two days in a row on Mon. and Tues. I don’t know if you’re natural or not, but if you are, it’s hard to make gains training a bodypart twice in a row for most trainees.

You have one day for shoulders and back-- a big bodypart and a huge one–and one for two small bodyparts, biceps and triceps. You’re also training triceps three times a week.

Well, I’m 5’10, 190 – just weighed myself tonight.

I’m not going to lie – I want to get freaking huge and ripped – like the guy in the latest powerful images thing. A more realistic goal is that I hope to gain 15 pounds in the next 2 months. I’ve been on a 2 year layoff.

I definately don’t mind hitting my body parts hard, but at the same time, I want to give them enough time to recover.

Give me some suggestions as to splits – I’ve searched and searched on here, but it’s hard to pick something with all the information on here.


Eating is not a problem as I’ve always ate a lot. I used to just eat like a mad man – everything in site, but now I’ve toned it down to all healthy (well, mostly healthy…)

Here’s what I’ve had today / will have for example…

8:30 - Protein shake, large bowl of Total with some brown sugar

11:00 – lunch – 1 LARGE turkey breast sandwich, 1 banana, 1 yogurt

2:30 – snack – protein bar and 2 packs of crackers

5:30 – 2 servings of cottage cheese and a multi-vitamin

7:00 – 1/3 pound hamburger, onion rings, green beans, glass of milk.

(workout)

9:30 1 banana, protein shake

then around 11:00 I’ll probably throw down another shake before bed and may munch on some cheese on wheat crackers


I’d say that’s enough stuff to eat, no? The hamburger probably isn’t the healthiest thing, but it’s protein.


Would this work better:

day 1: Chest / Triceps
day 2: Back / Biceps
day 3: off
day 4: Shoulders / Legs
day 5: off

repeat.

???

Thanks.

I’m sorry, I forgot – I’m just getting back into things after a 2-year layoff.

I’d say forget about bodyparts, train basic lifts, and don’t lift on consecutive days. Here’s a split I like:

Mon.:
Standing overhead presses
Power cleans
Hanging Leg Raises

Wed.:

Chins
Squats
Calf raises

Fri.:

Deadlifts
Bench presses
Barbell Curls

That’s it. Three exercises a day, two major mass and strength builders and one to add balance. The other thing I like is that you bench and curl last in the week, as a sort of reward.

Axel, thanks for your advice. Is that really enough to grow? It doesn’t seem like that much to me. How many sets of each exercise are you recommending be performed?

[quote]deapee wrote:
Axel, thanks for your advice. Is that really enough to grow? It doesn’t seem like that much to me. How many sets of each exercise are you recommending be performed?[/quote]

Please take some time to do a little bit of homework. I’m not blasting you, but your above response shows some need for research. Axel just gave you a workout that will hit your whole body–hard, and you ask if it is enough. Please read Chad W’s articles Lift Fast, Get Big and Total Body Workout from like Nov 2004. You will see Axel’s wisdom

[quote]sasquatch wrote:

Please take some time to do a little bit of homework. I’m not blasting you, but your above response shows some need for research. Axel just gave you a workout that will hit your whole body–hard, and you ask if it is enough. Please read Chad W’s articles Lift Fast, Get Big and Total Body Workout from like Nov 2004. You will see Axel’s wisdom[/quote]

No doubt I need research – or I wouldn’t be here asking questions :wink:

I was just asking how many sets per body part he was recomending.

I found this split in an article, and it makes decent sense to me…I think I’m going to follow this one…

Day 1: Upper body push (chest, triceps, shoulders)

Day 2: OFF

Day 3: Upper body pull (back, biceps, traps)

Day 4: Lower body (quads and hips)

Day 5: OFF

Day 6: repeat

deapee, to get as huge and strong, use whole-body workouts. Look in the cool tips archives and look up the 80/20 rule. I could explain it, and you probably know what I’m talking about, but really think about it. For example, you’d get far bigger if you went to the gym and did deadlifts HARD for half an hour, then left and ate then if you do arms. Pairing back&bis sucks, so does chest&tris. Train the big muscles hardest, the ones in the back of your body(traps,back,glutes,hams). You will add slabs of muscle if you choose to devote your time using heavy, simple exercises that allow you to move some weight, using lots of muscles. Read Dan John’s tip from last week. Do deadlifts, squats, chins, dips, cleans, rows(t-bar,barbell), overhead presses, and bench. If you take the time to learn some olympic lifts like the snatch you’d be great, but just doing 1-arm DB snatches will help you a lot. As far as training goes, work out 3-4 days a week, max. Keep your training sessions on the short side. Implement back-off weeks. Sleep enough. And eat large amounts of good food. Use the search engine on this site.

Hey, read the 1-lift a day program by Dan John. For your lifts, you could use deadlifts, chin-ups, squats, and bench presses. This program sounds crazy, but seriously think about it. And the split recommended to you is perfectly fine. You will see a helluva lot more growth on your arms by doing heavy chins, rows, and presses than you will devoting 1 day doing arms. This is a day wasted, you could be resting and growing on this day.

Also, do farmer’s walks. Read up on some strongman training and apply as much as you can. The human body adapts to training that carries over to the real world. Farmer’s walks or curls?? What works more muscles, carries over to the real world, is more challenging? Be different than the average crowd you see in the gym pumping up their arms. You’ll be surprised

[quote]deapee wrote:
Axel, thanks for your advice. Is that really enough to grow? It doesn’t seem like that much to me. How many sets of each exercise are you recommending be performed?[/quote]

Try five sets of 4-7 reps on the “money” exercises (the first two each day) not including 2 sets of warmup (or more if you need it).
Try three sets of 8-12 on the third exercise of the day, not including a set of warmups. These aren’t magical rep and set numbers, but I feel they should be effective.
If you work hard, this should be plenty.

Awesome everyone…Bed time now, but this definately gives me some stuff to digest tomorrow. Thanks a lot for your help. I’m definately going to come up with something for sure.

well since this is about training splits so i was wondering if i split up is a good idea

mon:legs

tue: back/bi’s

weds:rest

thurs:chest/tri’s

fri:shoulders/traps

im tryin to work from the bottum up, im taking vinny testavertie’s saying if your legs are stronge your upper body will be stronge too.

[quote]BigMike wrote:
well since this is about training splits so i was wondering if i split up is a good idea

mon:legs

tue: back/bi’s

weds:rest

thurs:chest/tri’s

fri:shoulders/traps

im tryin to work from the bottum up, im taking vinny testavertie’s saying if your legs are stronge your upper body will be stronge too. [/quote]

Beginning the training week with legs is a good idea as there will be lines for the bench press while the squat rack (where I hope you’ll be and not at the smith machine, leg press, etc.) should be free.

But you’re training shoulders and triceps two days in a row on Thurs. and Fri. Also, since I hope your back routine will include deadlifts or cleans you will be working your low back twice in a row on Mon. and Tues.
In doing this you are not only limiting your potential progress you are asking for an injury.

If you want to train bodyparts I suggest this split:

Mon.: Legs
Wed.: Chest, Arms
Fri.: Back, Shoulders

[quote]deapee wrote:
OK…How’s this split:

MON: Chest
TUES: Back / Shoulders
WED: Off
THU: Legs
FRI: Biceps / Triceps

I really don’t want to burn myself out by lifting too often, but is once a week really enough? I’m guessing that if you only lift chest once a week that when you do it you’ll really have to beat the crap out of it.

Thanks.[/quote]

What you must keep in mind is that every split has a weak point. It is important to identify this weak point and emphasis it on your next workout split / program. For instance, your shoulders & triceps will be somewhat fatigued from the previous days chest work. This is a possible weak point in your program, so the next workout split you design should allocate extra shoulder work. I would also put the shoulder work as the first muscle group worked on the first day of the week per advice of Ian King. Keep in mind that by doing this you will create a weak area in your split elsewhere, and so the cycle never ends.

Something else to mention is your shoulder work given your current split could just consist of medial deltoid work(great workout for this was posted just yesterday). This would eliminate a lot of your problems. Many believe that your anterior & posterior deltoids need not be worked very often if at all, your chest and back work should take care of those to areas. However, the point remains, changing your split and identifying weak areas to bring up is crucial to long term development.