T Nation

Is there anyone in this forum NOT on AAS?

And is huge/strong?

I’m begining to lose faith.

is there anyone intending on being strong/huge and NOT intending on using anything illegal?

I lately see everyone contributing in the Steroid forum, including those people I thought were natural (or said so), including t-mag contributers… the list goes on.

Are steroids a must? is everyone chossing the magic pill route? and dont give that “you gotta to be good to grow even with steroids”, “its not easy as you think” , and other bull . it should be rephrased to “if youre not growing on steroids youre a total dumbass”.
(I admit - total dumbasses are not hard to find.)

I lost faith years ago. You could almost believe that it could be done naturally back in the early 80’s when I first hit the gym in high school. Almost… but the standards set by today’s freaks in powerlifting and on the bodybuilding stage are nothing to look up to. They’re drug induced cartoon figures, not human beings.

Pick up an issue of Natural Bodybuilding & Fitness and just look at the difference between truly natural bodybuilders and even the amateur freaks on the NPC stage… not all of those guys on drugs can be that smart. No offense to all of the “smart” guys on roids.

I’ve noticed that may of the contributors are now experimenting as well. No drugs for me. I’m too old and what I consider too smart at this point in my life. I may never be big or strong in the eyes of the drug culture but I will be fit and healthy and I’ll know that my ego isn’t tied to a needle.

Hey Spank,
Remembering you pictures you’ve nothing to be ashamed off. Hope the “lose faith” was just an expression.
D.

I’ve never used and go about 195-200 at 5’7". I deadlift in the mid 500s, squat around 600(didn’t check a max lately, and bench in the mid 300s.

I don't know if you think that's impressive, but I'm happy so far.

Depends on what you think huge and strong is. It can be done without steroids. Focus on getting really fucking strong first. Once you do that, hypertrophy is just another variable that you will have control of.

Interesting topic. I personally thought I could be big and strong without anabolics but I’m begining to realize that to take things to the next level, I’m gonna need some help. The way I look at it is this. My goals are to be as big and strong as possible. I’ve done pretty good for myself (217lbs at 5’7 w/15% BF). Yet I don’t beleive other people see me as someone they would label as a bodybuilder. I know that sounds lame and shallow but for me it is an indicator of how I’m progressing toward my goals. Also, I figure, I already put a huge amount of time and effort into my training and diet, why not start running gear to legitimize all these resources I’m already investing toward my goals?

guess it depends.

I have not lost faith that you can be fairly ripped and strong, but huge too is a different story.

I’ve never weighed more than 175 pounds, I more easily carry 160-165. At 31 years of age, the idea of getting to 190-200 pounds(hyooge for me and my frame) seems utterly ridiculous to me without making it my only goal in life.

my best friend and room mate in college is 6’5" ish, benches in the 400’s and is a monster. Him and both his brothers are giants.

shrug

I never obsess over it guess. As long as I am strong(for my size) and lean I’m happy.

I am 6-5, 270@~12% bodyfat. Never used any illegal substances. Best bench is 405. All pretty good for being natural I think. Especially when I am bigger and stronger than a lot of guys I know that juice. I know it really has to piss them off. Have I thought about using? Sure I have. But I don’t feel I have maxed out my genetics yet. And with Biotest coming out with supps like Myostat, Hot-Rox, etc. then I have no reason to. I can continue pushing my genetics as far as possible. It is a slow process, but worth it in the long run. If I fell into the instant gratification trap in the gym I am sure it would have a lot of negative consequences on my life. I know I have an addictive personality so I avoid things like drugs, alcohol, and gambling that would cause me problems and focus on my job, workouts, and continuing education, things that are positive addictions in my book.

I have considered the “Dark Side” but for me it comes down to being HEALTHY not squatting 900lbs. Plus I would not enjoy carrying around all that weight. I would rather be lean and flexible than huge and bulky. This is a new relization but one that I am now striving to achieve through uglyness like IBUR.

As someone who has just started down that road I can empathise with the opinions expressed so far.

For myself though i feel that if i can use safely and intelligently then i don’t really see it as being that different to the use of other ergogenics that many of us use. I believe I am accelerating the rate at which i can achieve my goals while i still have good training years left in me (I am 28 BTW).

What i do find distressing is the stigma and in some cases (USA) illegality of using these substances. Not because AAS have no/little potential to do harm, but because criminalising AAS increases the risk to users i.e. counterfeits, misinformation e.t.c.

I also dislike the lies and deceipt surrounding the use of AAS in sports. All these sportsmen and women denying ever having used, when blatantly they have.

If you can achieve all you want being natural then all kudos to you.

Well you really have to ask are you losing faith or finally seeing reality. Much of the hype out there is deceptive about what it takes to play with the pros.

Muscle & Fitness in the late 80s would show Haney, Gaspari, Christian, etc and list their 2 hour, 50 set workouts all the while advocating drug free training. Only took a week or so of trying their programs to find that they were totally unrealistic for the average joe.

IMO Most of the pro sports that benefit from muscle mass are full of steroid abuse. Sure there is testing but it’s lame, a token gesture only. The governing bodies know what goes on but also know that to crack down would be harmful to their sport. Imagine trying to market weightlifting with natural athletes lifting half as much as the juicers. Tough sell.

Wether or not you need AAS depends on your genetics and your goals. If you want to bench 350 and are built like irondoc (guessing well-leveraged mesomorph) then you’re in the clear. If you are a 5’9", 160lbs, long-limbed ectomorph like me it just isn’t going to happen naturally.

i just started using aas after researching for a couple years. i am 2 weeks into my first mass cycle. imo i built a pretty impressive physique naturally. although i didnt see it, everyone else thought i was was pretty big. however for my goals, i decided that aas was the way to go.

i got up to about 190 at 5’7 naturally. if your diet is truly dialed in you can grow a lot naturally.

although i have to say that training while on compared to off, is like night and day.

all that said i see no difference between using test or winstrol and using mag-10. except for the illegal stuff is probabaly more effective. if you use mag-10 or the like you are juicing.

hey congrats to all of the non-users who stick with it and reach their goals.

Jason B: I am 6-5, 270@~12% bodyfat. Never used any illegal sbstances. Dude that is what I am talking about 270 all natural at a BF% that most people don’t get to with out killing themselves and most of their gains.

And BrianT dude don’t think so little of your self you are huge you just proved to me that my goals can be achieved. Im about 5’7 and 165 at about 10-12%BF next goal is 190lbs and then after that all I want is 215lbs. Dude for real I would like like an absolute monster @ 215 so man I know you are huge. If you want to go futher then start talking to some of the yets on this forum. I just put up a post in the nutrition topic area and this week along am already on my way to better routines, better eating habbits, and will be moving up my power lifting game soon. Any way like I said dude congrats and I think u still have a little farther to go without turning to aas. I may be wrong I have been before, just my opinion.

I guess if there was a major risk of health problems from moderate, or any, use like the average person thinks I’d have never touched the stuff.

I was talking to a buddy that was a BBer and powerlifter in the 80s one day. We talked about prohormones and all the other legal, for now, things. His take on it was that steroids have been around since about 1954 for the first ones and the risks and returns are known by a lot of people. Prohormones come out every 6 months or so and while they may work to a degree the long term risks to something that’s “one molecule off” of the real deal hasn’t really been seen through years of use.

Of course you don’t have to use anything if you don’t want to. I just don’t see it as any huge thing. It’s illegal, so? If it wasn’t for uninformed lawmakers I could go to a sports medicine doc and get a legal and safe cycle like they did in the 70s and 80s. I know a few BBers that used AAS for a number of years and they have no more or less health problems than the next guy that stayed in shape but stayed natural.

You know it’s legal in Mexico, Thailand, Greece, and a few other places. I don’t see reports of droves of huge dead male corpses in the alleys behind gyms in those countries. It might not really be all the big of a deal.

I don’t know if it’s funny or sad.I went to the Arnlod Classic a few yrs ago
to see what the ‘big boys’ actually looked like.While I was standing at one of the booths I heard this horrible rasping sound.It was that big dude from Muscle Mag.He looked like he was gonna explode,face was a light purple,panting
like a dog.This was while he was just standing there.No Thank You!!All things considered,and this is only my two cents
gimme Frank Zane’s body,or heck even Steve Reeves in those old Hercules movies.I’ve been doing this a long time,and I seen people who are naturally
gawd awful strong,and some who work out in a totally bizarre,and very random fashion and somehow look like the are one week out from a show.Go figure!

Some people use, some people don’t. Some drink, some don’t. Some smoke, some don’t. It’s an individual choice. If you want to look like an IFBB “pro” though, you’re gonna have to use. If, however, you just want to look big and huge compared to 99.9% of the rest of the world and not be exposed to any possible health risk factors, no matter how small, you don’t use. For me, overall health is far more important than obscene size and my lifestyle and diet reflect it. If I chose differently, it would still be my choice.

basher, are you saying that frank zane didnt use aas?

just because you use aas doesnt mean you want to look like “that guy from muscle mag.”

I used for the first time late this fall just 2 small cycles to get me ready for a meet that i got sick for and missed lol…but i never used before october and i weighed 260 with good numbers…but after i used i got my squat up and over the 700 region and my bench is very close to 500, i also went from 260 to nearly 300 pounds during the 2 cycles …i truly do not plan to use for a while… my goal now is i want to get stronger and keep the strength i gained on aas while dieting into the 242’s or a lean 275 by april and hit a 700+sq-500bench-550dl…this is my goal and it is going great… it is seriously all about being smart with your diet…even while i used steroids and reached good naturual gains before i never worried about nutrtion i somedays ate alot of protien somedays i didnt i just tried to eat food any kind of food 5 times a day…now i eat 500 grams of protien a day and i eat about 7-8 times a day and my body weight is falling and i am keeping all my strength from my aas cycles it is amazing…i do not miss the 500 gram of protien mark if i am a 100 grams away at bed time i take in a 100 grams before bed i take in a nytro-pro 40 and 2 scoops of vp2 or grow mixed in…this is the key for me protien protien protien…i actually just ate 3 12 ounce steaks and brown rice…so i wouldnt loose faith because with good training and nutrtion you can reach high levels and then use aas to get over a hump if you need it and then take on the task of trying to keep the gains…big martin

Frank Zane was not AAS free. Back then the BBers used it in a reasonable and safe manner as an aid, not chemical warfare like today.

I am pretty big and very strong and have never used. I have no problem with people that do, however, I just dont think i need it.