Is the Idea of Strength Philosophical?

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

I don’t think Overeem gassed so much that he just got his ass lit up and could not recover.

When I think of certain examples of big guys gassing I think of Shane Carwin against Lesner. He tagged Lesner and then threw everything but his sink at him. I thought he was gonna pull it out but didn’t. After that, he was toast.

he just layed down…
right in the middle of the ring.

Timmer wasn’t punching or kicking or doin nothin.

I’m sure the expression on my face was just like what i saw on ole Timmer’s face.
Like what the hell?

Hey… i’ve been KTFO, and i’ve had a ref step in and stop the fight (bless his heart for saving my ass) but i never just layed down in the middle of the ring.

Still makes me laugh when i think about.

Guess them big rocks don’t hit back.

Lb

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.[/quote]
his entire body turned purple man, there is literally no way he will ever have good conditioning

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.[/quote]
his entire body turned purple man, there is literally no way he will ever have good conditioning [/quote]

So you’re suggesting that no one has ever drastically improved their conditioning before? He had only a little over 1 year’s worth of serious MMA training at that time. That’s 14 months to try to learn wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and striking while at the same time adapt to the conditioning demands of MMA, as a HW no less. Just because his conditioning wasn’t elite level at that point doesn’t mean he is doomed for it to suck forever. Like anything else, it can and will improve if he focuses on it and develops his skills to a degree that allows for better efficiency of movement/energy expenditure.

Whether he is too old at this point to truly make those changes is yet to be seen.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.[/quote]
his entire body turned purple man, there is literally no way he will ever have good conditioning [/quote]

So you’re suggesting that no one has ever drastically improved their conditioning before? He had only a little over 1 year’s worth of serious MMA training at that time. That’s 14 months to try to learn wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and striking while at the same time adapt to the conditioning demands of MMA, as a HW no less. Just because his conditioning wasn’t elite level at that point doesn’t mean he is doomed for it to suck forever. Like anything else, it can and will improve if he focuses on it and develops his skills to a degree that allows for better efficiency of movement/energy expenditure.

Whether he is too old at this point to truly make those changes is yet to be seen. [/quote]
uh no, he is too big and muscular to have good conditioning what is so hard to understand

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.[/quote]
his entire body turned purple man, there is literally no way he will ever have good conditioning [/quote]

So you’re suggesting that no one has ever drastically improved their conditioning before? He had only a little over 1 year’s worth of serious MMA training at that time. That’s 14 months to try to learn wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and striking while at the same time adapt to the conditioning demands of MMA, as a HW no less. Just because his conditioning wasn’t elite level at that point doesn’t mean he is doomed for it to suck forever. Like anything else, it can and will improve if he focuses on it and develops his skills to a degree that allows for better efficiency of movement/energy expenditure.

Whether he is too old at this point to truly make those changes is yet to be seen. [/quote]
uh no, he is too big and muscular to have good conditioning what is so hard to understand[/quote]

He’s not even at the HW limit at this point and nowhere near the Wrestling (be it Collegiate, International, or Olympic) HW limit. Yet I’ve already named Lesnar, who was heavier and didn’t seem to have a problem gassing. Sapp also didn’t have too many problems in his early MMA career and he’s much bigger than Pudz. So your argument just doesn’t hold water. Pudz hasn’t got the skill to use his energy efficiently and therefore utilizes too much “muscle” (which has nothing to do with the size of his actual muscles and everything to do with his reliance on strength to make things work rather than positioning, leverage, and timing). That is why he gasses. The same thing happens to new lighter MMA trainees all the time, especially naturally stronger ones.

Regardless of any of this, OP, sorry for the thread derail, hopefully you got the answer to your question. Strength is not philosophical (at least not physical strength), it is fairly straightforward if you just realize that there are many different muscles in the body and a multitude of ways that the human body can utilize them. So, while strength is simply the neuromuscular system’s ability to generate maximal force, it is also movement or activity specific in nature.

Sento, why are you arguing with Sardines? Really?

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sento, why are you arguing with Sardines? Really?[/quote]

Yeah, wondering that a little bit myself. That’s why I tried to steer the thread back to the Shark’s original topic at the end of my last post. Good call though.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
And of course there’s Lesnar too.[/quote]
170 even 210 pounds of muscle is way way way different than being as big as pudz. Lesnar is a good example but he paced himself, had a style that allowed him to fight without expending too much energy and as we saw he eventually got beat by a quicker more skilled fighter aka Cain
I mean shit even Overeem tried to pace himself and look where that got him against Bigfoot[/quote]

Ok then we are in agreement, even with a very large muscular build one can be an effective MMA fighter given the skill to be able to minimize energy expenditure. I don’t recall ever saying otherwise. What I have been saying all along is that, unlike Lesnar or Reem, Pudz does not have this level of skill and that is why he isn’t going to be holding any belt any time soon.[/quote]
my point is that even with skill he would still have the gassing issue[/quote]

He would probably slow down by the end of a 5 round title fight, very few fighters in any weight division don’t. He would not necessarily “gas” (meaning be completely depleted of energy he did in his fight with Silva) however.[/quote]
his entire body turned purple man, there is literally no way he will ever have good conditioning [/quote]

So you’re suggesting that no one has ever drastically improved their conditioning before? He had only a little over 1 year’s worth of serious MMA training at that time. That’s 14 months to try to learn wrestling, Jiu-Jitsu, and striking while at the same time adapt to the conditioning demands of MMA, as a HW no less. Just because his conditioning wasn’t elite level at that point doesn’t mean he is doomed for it to suck forever. Like anything else, it can and will improve if he focuses on it and develops his skills to a degree that allows for better efficiency of movement/energy expenditure.

Whether he is too old at this point to truly make those changes is yet to be seen. [/quote]
uh no, he is too big and muscular to have good conditioning what is so hard to understand[/quote]

He’s not even at the HW limit at this point and nowhere near the Wrestling (be it Collegiate, International, or Olympic) HW limit. Yet I’ve already named Lesnar, who was heavier and didn’t seem to have a problem gassing. Sapp also didn’t have too many problems in his early MMA career and he’s much bigger than Pudz. So your argument just doesn’t hold water. Pudz hasn’t got the skill to use his energy efficiently and therefore utilizes too much “muscle” (which has nothing to do with the size of his actual muscles and everything to do with his reliance on strength to make things work rather than positioning, leverage, and timing). That is why he gasses. The same thing happens to new lighter MMA trainees all the time, especially naturally stronger ones.

Regardless of any of this, OP, sorry for the thread derail, hopefully you got the answer to your question. Strength is not philosophical (at least not physical strength), it is fairly straightforward if you just realize that there are many different muscles in the body and a multitude of ways that the human body can utilize them. So, while strength is simply the neuromuscular system’s ability to generate maximal force, it is also movement or activity specific in nature.[/quote]
lesnar had a background in wrestling, pudz literally spent years and years developing fast twitch muscle with piss poor oxidative qualities, he will never be in good enough shape

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sento, why are you arguing with Sardines? Really?[/quote]
do I need to call you out again so you can puss out, fightingpussy?

[quote]sardines12 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Sento, why are you arguing with Sardines? Really?[/quote]
do I need to call you out again so you can puss out, fightingpussy?[/quote]

Shut up homo. You’re lucky the site hasn’t banned you for incessant trolling. It’s a shame they haven’t.