T Nation

Is T3 and Test Counterproductive?

Is taking T3 and Test counterproductive to muscle gain?

wtf

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
wtf[/quote]

You obviously no nothing about T3…hence your ignorance.

[quote]sweetsplat wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
wtf

You obviously no nothing about T3…hence your ignorance. [/quote]

True.

That certainly is the most logical explanation for my response. You really knocked that one out of the park.

Enlighten me please. While you are at it explain why you can explain how testosterone and T3 work but not ‘no’ if they are or aren’t good to use together.

Edited

1 Like

T3 at low doses of 25mcg can be used to enhance protein synthesis and aid muscle gains

Anything above this usually decreases nitrogen retention, and can lead to muscle loss without anabolic support

[quote]RollingStone wrote:
T3 at low doses of 25mcg can be used to enhance protein synthesis and aid muscle gains

Anything above this usually decreases nitrogen retention, and can lead to muscle loss without anabolic support[/quote]

Thank you for response RollingStone.

If the prior poster was not such an ass he might actually benefit this forum. However, I took the liberty of perusing his posts since 2007 and it reflects a general theme of a jackass(ness) and ignorance. I will pray for him.

Drop the attitude kid for a start, no one wants to read it.

T3 and AAS are a potent combination for both bulking and cutting.
As far as cutting goes; i have a little experience but bulking with T3 is more my game.

It takes experience to get dosages right but if i am really needing to put weight on fast i would now apply the following formula.

25mcg per day to every 500mg of Testosterone from when blood levels are peaked.
The peaked blood levels being the key to that statement.
Do not start earlier unless a proper front load is used.
Calories will obviously vary from person to person and to illicit the best results you must be reasonably accurate with your figures.
As a made up example say im weighing 230lbs.
Maintainence calories @ 1000mg test/wk amounts to 4000 per day.
I eat 5000 per day whilst on cycle for steady gains.
per 25mcg of T3, i can add 500 calories per day (namely protein and carbs)
and gain at a faster rate without adding unsightly adipose to my physique.
As reguards any other uses, it can be used at 25mcg a day whilst on cycle with to negate fat gain if you dont have the dedication to say no to crappy food.
Cutting is a different issue, solid test levels are a must to prevent catabolism and the dosage must remain low (of t3) so as not to waste muscle whilst in a calorie defecit.

testanabol,

Can you tell me if there is an accompanying increased energy benefit with 25mcg T3/d (500mg peak test) or 50mcg/d in the case of 1g peak test? Also, does it affect your quality of sleep?

I ask because it just so happens that I finished off the last of prescribed Armour thyroid (60mg/d mostly T4 and a little T3 contained in Armour thyroid). I am no longer with the doc who prescribed it and haven’t approached another doc yet. I am going to see if there is a difference in my energy level as the days off increase. This is the first morning in a couple of years that I have not taken this med. It was originally prescribed as a trial and error experiment since I complained of low energy levels and the doc said that while my blood levels were in the ref range, they didn’t appear to be “ideal”. I originally started with synthroid (synthetic T4 only) and changed to Armour a couple of years ago.

[quote]sweetsplat wrote:

If the prior poster was not such an ass he might actually benefit this forum. However, I took the liberty of perusing his posts since 2007 and it reflects a general theme of a jackass(ness) and ignorance. I will pray for him. [/quote]

not the brightest crayon in the box are you? im literally shocked testa helped you out. :confused: not the way to go about getting anywhere on this site man

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
testanabol,

Can you tell me if there is an accompanying increased energy benefit with 25mcg T3/d (500mg peak test) or 50mcg/d in the case of 1g peak test? Also, does it affect your quality of sleep?

I ask because it just so happens that I finished off the last of prescribed Armour thyroid (60mg/d mostly T4 and a little T3 contained in Armour thyroid). I am no longer with the doc who prescribed it and haven’t approached another doc yet. I am going to see if there is a difference in my energy level as the days off increase. This is the first morning in a couple of years that I have not taken this med. It was originally prescribed as a trial and error experiment since I complained of low energy levels and the doc said that while my blood levels were in the ref range, they didn’t appear to be “ideal”. I originally started with synthroid (synthetic T4 only) and changed to Armour a couple of years ago.
[/quote]

The short answer to the question would be yes lol.

When ive used 25mcg a day for cutting purpose on a calorie deficit, there is a noticable difference to the point you dont realise your not eating enough apart from the fact that your stomach is having an epileptic fit haha.
I have actually ran t3 as high as 100mcg per day which completely sucked donkey cock, it’s just far too mch and you feel burnt out all the time.

When ive ran 50mcg with 1g of test i could not tell the difference as that much test makes me feel shitty and eating 8000kcal a day - (i was 250lbs then) is a killer as all your energy is used running to the toilet for a dump :wink:
I imagine if you had a deficency, 25mcg a day of a good quality or even better pharm grade t3 would make a big difference to you.

Obviously, i dont know your whole story mate but i would try running high doses of sea kelp whilst your off synthetic thyroid analogues, i always use kelp as a thyroid ‘pct’ and my metabolism is as good and natural as ever.

Hope that helps

[quote]Game_over wrote:
sweetsplat wrote:

If the prior poster was not such an ass he might actually benefit this forum. However, I took the liberty of perusing his posts since 2007 and it reflects a general theme of a jackass(ness) and ignorance. I will pray for him.

not the brightest crayon in the box are you? im literally shocked testa helped you out. :confused: not the way to go about getting anywhere on this site man[/quote]

My arms are nearly back at full size again, the sleeve on my T-shirt burst doing Curls so i was in a very good mood, specially as the gym was rammed and there were loads of people watching haha

Thanks for the thyroid info testanabol.

If you noticed…? I was not speaking about testa. I appreciate his input and knowledge. My sarcasm was intended for Bonehead directly related to his ignorant “wtf” post. If you dish it out, you had better be able to take it. This applies to forums and life.

Check your PM’s and enjoy.

[quote]Game_over wrote:
sweetsplat wrote:

If the prior poster was not such an ass he might actually benefit this forum. However, I took the liberty of perusing his posts since 2007 and it reflects a general theme of a jackass(ness) and ignorance. I will pray for him.

not the brightest crayon in the box are you? im literally shocked testa helped you out. :confused: not the way to go about getting anywhere on this site man[/quote]

i knew exactly what and who you were referring too, like i already said your lucky testa helped you after disrespecting a well respected member on this board.

FU

sweetsplat
04/18/09
11:54 PM

I personally don’t give a fuck what you think. Go fuck yourself.

ouch that PM really hurt. put a lotta thought into that did you?

[quote]Game_over wrote:
i knew exactly what and who you were referring too, like i already said your lucky testa helped you after disrespecting a well respected member on this board.

FU

sweetsplat
04/18/09
11:54 PM

I personally don’t give a fuck what you think. Go fuck yourself.

ouch that PM really hurt. put a lotta thought into that did you? [/quote]

He sounds big Game watch out!! ; )

Testanabol, I’m very interested in hearing how you dose and use the sea kelp post T3/T4 use.

[quote]xXDevilDogXx wrote:
Testanabol, I’m very interested in hearing how you dose and use the sea kelp post T3/T4 use.[/quote]

so am i

I have never even thought of using sea kelp, and god knows my metabolism needs all the help it can get

Yeah, count me in on the sea kelp.

I actually think that T3 is exceptionally beneficial and has more applications than just cutting. The increased protein synthesis can be used to promote growth, given adequate nutrition. I also think that T3 can be used as a pretty effective nootropic too. The brain (and eyes too) are particularly receptive to thyroid meds. For example, children deficient in thyroid hormone typically do not grow sufficiently and develop cretinism unless supplemented.

In terms of a thryoid PCT, there are few things we need to consider if taking exogenous thyroid meds

  1. If using T3 you will significantly lower your T4 levels, which serves a reservoir for your ‘active’ hormone T4, as well as your t3 levels

  2. Your TSH may well be low too

  3. You thyroid is intricately linked to your adrenal functioning

When coming off thyroid meds we need to consider all 3 factors and address them appropriately. Luckily we can do this with supplements and glandulars. So, what I would suggest is to

  1. Increase your adrenal reserves (thyroid can deplete your adrenals significantly)
  2. Increase your T4 levels with aminos and minerals
  3. Promote the natural deiodinase conversion of t4 - t3.

To increase adrenal reserves, mega dose vit C in gram amounts, at leat 2 -4g (some may even need up to 9g) Vit C is involved in the enzymatic cascade of the adrenal function. Also important is pantothenic acid (vit B5), magnesium, zinc, copper, B6 and licorice. I also recommend 7 keto DHEA (25 - 100mg day) and maybe an adrenal glandular supplement, such as nutri meds products.

You start with the max dose, then slowly reduce ovee a couple of months as your reserves increase and you can eliminate the products completely. I actually recommend the above protocols prior to commencing thyroid ‘supplementation’

Secondly, for the thyroid, consider

  1. Tyrosine, phenylananine (500mg - 2g day)
  2. Iodine (kelp) 150mcg (do not take too much, this can make things worse!)
  3. Vits A, B complex, C, E and D3
  4. Zinc,magnesium, calcium, manganese copper

I would also consider CoQ10. The tyrosine, phenylanaine and Iodine will provide the raw materials, the vitamins + minerals will assist the conversion.

You could also use a thyroid glandular supplement and slowly taper off it too, if you have been using thyroid meds for a long time, onto the supplement protocols listed above. And then taper off after as soon as functioning is complete.

The thyroid is a sensitive gland. BUT. It is can also recover fairly quickly.

You should also consider that thryoid greatly increases the oxidization of carbs and fats as energy substrates. When coming off thryoid, consider that for quite a period your energy expenditure will be pretty reduced. Along with your protein synthesis. If you consider this and make appropriate adjustments to your calories, you wont get fat.

Excellent post Dave. Thank you.