T Nation

Is T-Nation Making Anyone Else Feel Poor?


I am not a hater.
I know this is a (very savvy) business model.
I have bought Biotest.
I have bought some ANACONDA Protocols.

And they took some serious financial commitment.
But lately I have been feeling that the "elite athlete" in the slogan really just means "rich athlete."
Specifically ALL the focus on the Indigo-3G Project. I understand CT et al cannot coach everybody. I understand that if you buy a lot you should get more perks.

But I seem to be getting more and more left in the dust because I just can't afford that certain supplement.
If I were wealthy I'd be eating up all the purple pills and the live coaching and loving it. But since I'm not, I'll just have to be content to sit on the sidelines and watch the others with their rings and prowlers and fancy restricted-access programs from CT.

Am I the only one feeling this way?


Probably not, but you get tons of articles and free advice from people you could not afford to meet in person because Biotest pays for their time.

In very many ways you are better off than any generation before you.

So, you can either get jelly because some people have it even better (yay capitalism, money does indeed have advantages, who knew?) or you can buckle up and get better results than 95% of the population with the FREE advice on this website alone.

So, is the class 95% full or 5% empty?


Y'see son there's a little unspoken rule about this that we all know.

You don't really need any supplements in the strictest sense. I still buy them because I'm not holding some protein powder in one hand and essential medicine in the other and having to chose which one to buy. Not being able to afford to buy a product doesn't mean the producer is holding you back.

Biotest makes quality supplements and they have provided this forum which is one of the greatest training aids on the net. People that know their stuff know that this board is where you go to talk about it and learn more.

I have bought about a total of $200 from Biotest ( at a store in my city) but I live in Asia and would buy more but it's hard, so I'm a level 0.


Well NEEEEED....

Omega 3s, greens and Creatine offer a mighty bang for the buck, if not OMGDZ he looks awesome wise at least health wise.

I like health.

The alternative kind of sucks.



The man makes the supplements, the supplements don't make the man.


Before OP goes back to lurking, let it be known that good old basic lifting and healthy food is, if you wanna speak in percentages, the 90%.

The rest, all these fancy elite programs, the "elite" supplements, the cool equipment like prowler, yoke and stuff might look cool on high-impact, high-threshold HD while wearing combed ring-spun cotton and doing everything high-threshold rapid-rate, etc. etc but it is the icing on the cake, no more no less.
You won't magically blow up by taking Indigo-3G or the like.
People have been getting jacked, ripped and super-human strong without fancy stuff.
It's not like like Biotest invented muscle, yeez.

So lighten up and don't get yourself thinkin' you're missing out on some super-secret elite stuff, when the secret is there is no secret! Lifting heavy, eating smart and resting enough has been working just great for the past centuries...


Probably. Not only do they give you access to top-secret programs if you spend a lot, but you get a t-shirt of the month, membership card, 20 free chuck-e-cheese tokens, and one night per year with Jamie Eason (subject to cancellation at any time).


Also you can find pretty much everything Biotest sells on Amazon cheaper. I don't feel bad about buying it this way because whoever is selling it had to have bought it from T-Nation originally.


Those are counterfeit chinese substitutes high in dangerous metals and other assorted shit. I'd tread lightly.


This is true.

When I made level 4 I could choose what fitness model I would make sweet, sweet love to.

I wonder what would happen at level 5?


Rumor is that Yale isn't the only way. However, I've already said too much.


What is this?!?! An actual pleasant post from Dre?!?

Explain this bullshit!!!!!


Unless you're a pretty elite-level athlete and not some weekend warrior who measures his self-worth in terms of how many home runs he hits in his coed softball league, you don't really need most of the supplements offered on here. I've found that I get pretty good results simply by focusing on flexibility and mobility as much as I focus on actual movement patterns, by working out intelligently (an intelligence largely guided by the free articles on this site) and by eating right and in large enough amounts to provide the fuel I need.

If you're lifting simply to look better and get stronger for vanity and strength's sake, anything beyond a halfway decent protein powder and maybe some fish oil and a multi-vitamin is overkill, and if you're spending a lot of money on supplements from this site without engaging in activities that warrant such expenditures you're an idiot and have no one to blame for "feeling poor" but yourself.

In other words, if you lift simply to lift, you don't need 99% of the supplements here. If you lift to prepare for some other athletic competition, whether it be a powerlifting meet, a downhill mt bike race, a bike race, an obstacle course event like the Tough Mudder and so on, then you might want to look into some supplements. But even then you need to weigh the investment against what you plan on competing in. I plan on trying to swim across the lake pictured in my avatar this summer (roughly 4 miles) and then run up and down the the mountain on the other side (about a 3,000 ft ascent starting at around 4500 ft above sea-level). That's a pretty tough challenge I've set for myself and I'm smart enough to know that how I prepare for it in terms of my workouts is going to matter much more than what I supplements I take. The supplements that I take will be whatever I feel will enhance whatever workout I plan on going through as preparation. And although I get all my supps for free from a buddy who owns a NutriShop in San Jose, if I were to spend any money on this site I wouldn't go over whatever it is I feel meeting this challenge without killing myself in preparation is worth.


You try a bunch of shit and find out what works for you. End of story.



I didn't get to pick a fitness model to make love to when I made level 4...

Damn economy



<--------------- Now, I'm obviously a little biased, but . . . no, I don't feel left out. For my goals, the currently headlining supplement is not on my must-have list. Doesn't mean I won't be using it in the future.

The questions you should ask: Do you need the supplements offered? Do you feel that the Purple Pill is going to get you to your next goal more quickly/safely/permanently?

[[Confession: I have slacked off heavily in my Biotest orders since a certain post from a certain editor. It's almost certainly an over-reaction, but it left a bad taste in my mouth. Unlike the liquid flavoring, MAG-10 powda, and the various pills and potions which've helped me achieve a level of physique development, athletic performance and specific health which I've found to be impossible with another company's product. Those tasted good.]]

So, OP - get what you need. As it's been noted, despite the commercial intent of the forums and the site proper, this is still one of the best sources for training and nutrition on the Internet. Period.


Some psychological studies have shown that the level of sacrifice one is willing to commit to is actually a reinforcing factor to their level of dedication.

Cost has very little to do with price on any of this stuff. It has more to do with how much you are willing to pay and how hard you are willing to work to not be wrong.


Would love to see the level of physique that is so close to elite that these specific supplements are what's holding them back.

I would imagine most of the people buying the most supplements will see the least in terms of progress.


You know, I have a cousin of mine, 5 yrs older, out of school, real nice job, and he takes about every "elite supp" he can get his hands on. I once asked him and he said he spends about 850 a month on supps. Here's the kicker, HE"S STILL A FAT ASS. Not even the good "I have muscle underneath fat" more the "Can't break a twig, lift a hammer, or take his shirt off without blinding everyone fat."

Now I see him once every few weeks or so, and he always looks the same despite the fact he'll talk about this great new supp he's taking and how I have to try it, and how I must be on steriods because I only use like 4-5 basic sups. I just tune it out. I'm not huge, I'm 20 yrs old, 5'8 175-180lbs depending on the time of day, not sure of my bf percent but I can see all 6 of my abs without trouble, wear a 29 in waist, 15 in arms (not huge but something to work on.) and wear a size 42 jacket.(Don't have leg measurement, the only reason I know anything but the arms is because I just got a suit fitted for christmas, btw, The Mens Wearhouse if you have one near to you is worth checking out.)

Everyday I'm getting bigger and stronger, I've done HP mass when I first came out for awhile and recently switch over to John Meadows Moutain dog for intermediates and I'm starting to grow again. I guess my take home point is that to "looked good naked" as many of us strive, then you don't need all the best supps in the world, just hard, ball busting work, good sane nutrition, and some supps such a protein powder, Surge Recovery to drink during or after your workouts, or maybe some BCAA's, Zinc is crucial in my opinion and dirt cheap, and during the winter months I like Vitamin D3.

Now keep in mind however, I'm a big fan of Biotest, and yes, while there marketing is a little extreme to those who see it everyday it's genius none the less. They give us tons of free info, Almost every form of training I've done has come from something they published. Every Supp I've bought from them has been of good quality, and as a company I trust them. I would love to try Anaconda, MAG-10, and Indigo, but I can't afford it. However, if you were to ask even Tim Patterson himself, I'm sure he'd tell you, 90 percent of it is Hard Work, Good Food, Rest, and your Basic Sups. Just think about it, everyone going to the Indigo boot camps are people who have paid their dues and have achieved that 90%.