T Nation

Is SOY the Best Protein

I have recently come accross a study showing unequivocally that soy is the best protein around. Rats with only 1/6th renal function were fed 200g/kg of either soy or casein. Ultimately, the soy feedings resulted in less renal stress than the casein feedings.

The moral of the story: The next time you’re in severe renal failure and eating 20000g protein a day, make sure it’s soy!

:slight_smile:

Soy does not digest as fast as albumen or whey. It also gives most individuals gas. Meanwhile, it promotes estrogen…yippee!

According to articles on this site, you want to avoid soy at all costs. Do a search, they call it poison.

this is such a relavent study. thanks for posting it! as a matter of fact i have a rat problem at my house. im just gonna start sprinkling casein all over the house. hopefully some of them will have a pre existing renal problem. then they will die!

He’s kidding, people. David Barr has written articles for this site.

Insert overused but sometimes appropriate Homer Simpson exclamation here.

Since you’re around I was hoping you’d field a question for us. In this weeks article you seem to suggest that post-workout nutrition timing (i.e. immediately after workout and again within an hour or so) is not as important as previously suggested in Berardi’s articles. How should we interpret the conflicting results; different pop. sample, testing methods etc.? Validity of each? Is there anybody at T-mag that could get Berardi in on this?
Thanks
RB

i think barr is a mole sent from the soy community, to infiltrate and convert us into soy loving fairys.

at this nutrition store near by, they are having ‘the wonders of soy’ mini-convention in it or something, and the guy always presenting is this extremely skinny pasty guy with tights on and a ‘wonders of soy’ shirt on. wish i had a digital cam.

maybe its barr.

I was doing a medline search this morning and came across that article. I’ll have to keep that in mind when I’m a nephrologist a few years from now!

Seriously, I probably won’t be a nephrologist, it’s just that as we go through the various blocks of my medical physiology course I find it all interesting and decide I want to do what we are studying at that moment. First it was an endocrinologist, then cardiologist, then pulmonologist, and now nephrologist. Next week I’m going to want to be a gastroenterologist! Scoping colons now thats a career!

Seriously people, get a sense of humor. Does anyone actually read the articles? If you did you might recognize him as the Barr from this weeks article “Barr Room Brawl.”

Jeez davo2, I’m glad somebody actually looked at who posted that.

I just thought I’d add my 2 cents here… As far as I know, there has been no evidence to show that a workout sugar/whey drink is better for the body than eating a whole food meal 1 or 2 hours pre training, then another immediately after. All the scientific studies on sugar/whey workout drinks have been on people who have fasted for 10 hours or so before the workout. I don’t know about you, but that has NO relevance to my situation. Secondly, I really wish more people would LISTEN TO THEIR BODIES!!! Don’t just take someone’s advice and then follow it blindly like it’s the freakin’ bible! Try it and see how you feel: is your strength increasing each week compared to before you implemented the new idea? Are you losing fat or gaining muscle? This can be determined easily within a month using the bathroom scale, calipers, gym numbers, and some simple math. After much experimentation I find I am now in the best, leanest, strongest shape of my life simply eating whole foods all day. I have tried many different combinations of sugars and whey’s, but nothing beats a banana, white potato and dry cottage cheese post workout for me. But I think that’s too simple for most people, they buy into the hype about supplements and protein powders but they forget to take note of what it REALLY does for them. Oh well, just my 2 cents. End of rant:)
Pete

That’s got to be the most pointless study ever :slight_smile:

David Barr wrote:

"The moral of the story: The next time you’re in severe renal failure and eating 20 000g protein a day, make sure it’s soy! "

That means never folks! I can’t figure out whether people have no sense of humour or whether they simply don’t read/understand simple posts???

I’ll take the heat for my dry sense of humour. No biggie… I’m just amazed that they could feed rats the equivalent of 20 000g of protein a day(!) AND they had only 1/3 of ONE functioning kidney left! This is a study to promote the safety of high protein intakes if I’ve ever seen one!

RB: I don’t know who that Berardi guy is, but he probably doesn’t know what he’s talking about.:slight_smile: [For those that don’t understand the smiley face, I AM KIDDING] The data the John and I present are from the same studies, and I didn’t mean to suggest that timing isn’t important. I just wanted to shed a little light on the “post workout nutrient window”, because it’s gotten a little out of hand. For example,I remember one article (NOT in T-mag) claiming that you need to consume creatine within 10 minutes of working out to get maximum uptake.
My comment that “it’s just not that big of a deal” specifically refers to the idea that protein accretion may be enhanced, by protein intake, to a greater extent an hour after the workout compared to immediately after BUT it’s not anything to really worry about (the data are rather limited anyway). I really wanted to contradict the common notion that we have just a one hour window for protein (started by extrapolation of carbohydrate data and perpetuated by a potentially flawed elderly study).

IN OTHER WORDS: The original ideas of why we’ve been doing things may not be as dogmatically correct as we once thought, BUT what we’ve been doing seems to be more or less right, and that’s what ultimately matters.

Whoa! Waitaminute! You mean you guys AREN’T sucking down 20000g of protein a day??? Man, why am I ALWAYS the last one to know? Screw you guys, I’m taking my 1/3 of my one remaining kidney, buying a subscription to Men’s Health, and starting tomorrow… 10 sets of 1000 sit-ups to get my six-pack!!

^^^

Don’t forget to shave everything afterward!

Good find, Dave!

After spending the last two hours preparing a presentation on the impact of the suprachiasmatic nucleus of the hypothalamus on diurnal rhythms in plasma glucose, glucose uptake, and insulin sensitivity, I can’t think of anything that I needed LESS than a little PhD humor!

How about you toss out that BS Ebben and Jensen study from Marquette that said bands and chains were useless? My strength and conditioning side needs a little stimulus now…that’s sure to get me going!

lol cant believe someone took that seriously that amused me emensley!
and apparantly screwed up my ability to spell. hmmm.
aaanyway, dave, while your postin’, ive got a whole ton of security blankets that need pissin on - especially post-training nutrition blankets. Im guessing your writing a lovely metaphorical bucket of piss (I mean that in a complementary way. lol!) and I for one totally cant wait for it. If you arent writing one you should be! I had no fuckin idea about the 10hours of fasting thing, or that the training involved in those studies is aerobic! shit I dont even know which studies “those studies” are! can you point me in the right direction to go makin my own mind up with like, a list of pub-med links to abstracts?
keep up the fuckin awesome work man!

The only thing that scares me is that this paper was discussed in class yesterday, and I couldn’t be there! I had a whole “off-topic” rant prepared and everything. I’m sure everyone had their fears confirmed that protein is indeed evil, and will cause immediate kidney explosion upon looking at large quantities.

“Kiss saves Santa” is the greatest holiday special ever.

that was funny.

:slight_smile:

seeing as what the title of this thread is I thought id throw some abstracts about. Now if you anything like me, your thinking, right now, what are the Effects of dietary intake of soy protein and isoflavones on cardiovascular disease risk factors in high risk, middle-aged men in Scotland?! and the answer, courtesy of Sagara et al ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14963058 ) is that Dietary intakes of soy protein (at least 20 g) and isoflavones (at least 80 mg) for 5 weeks would be effective in reducing CHD risk…
…hmmmmmmmm so soy is good then?
well, again, if your at all like me your now thinking… “Monkeys! make him say something about monkeys! theyr so funny with their banana eating antics, teeheehee! i wonder what would happen if we rammed yummy soy down their throats… would it lower their CHD risk?!”
Well, I dont know about their CHD risk, but Simon et al noticed Increased aggressive behavior and decreased affiliative behavior in adult male monkeys after long-term consumption of diets rich in soy protein and isoflavones! ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15053944 ) good god! damn evil soy makes us anti social and heres an extract:

“the proportion of time spent by these monkeys in physical contact with other monkeys was reduced by 68%, time spent in proximity to other monkeys was reduced 50%, and time spent alone was increased 30% (P’s < 0.02). There were no effects of treatment on serum testosterone or estradiol concentrations or the response of plasma testosterone to exogenous gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH).”

Finally, on a more serious note (moving away from the funny cute monkeys…) answering a serious personal concern of mine is Giampietro et al ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15055353 ) with a sample of 48 children (yaaawn) with a range of 7-96 months. hmm. small sample, big range, qudos to these lads for the much needed research but im not hanging any assurances of this one. although god only knows PETA will be! entitled Soy protein formulas in children: no hormonal effects in long-term feeding, the study says that

“none of the enrolled girls showed signs/symptoms of precocious puberty and none of the boys presented gynecomastia; bone age was within the normal range.”

soooo there you have it. soy good for rats, bad for monkeys, great if your an atherosclerotic Scot, and pretty damn boring if your an Italian child.

$0.02