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Is Progression All About Load/Time?

Basically when i see methods of progressions the main ones are adding weight, sets, or reps, or decreasing rest time.

so basically is progression just about doing more work/adding an exercise is 4setsx10repsx50lb= 2000 in 10min. the main concern is doing more in the same amount of time or the same in less time right?

Sigh

I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, but if you’ve been around since even February, you’ve been missing a lot of information.

[quote]SSC wrote:
Sigh

I’m sorry I can’t be of more help, but if you’ve been around since even February, you’ve been missing a lot of information.[/quote]

well i’ve been a member but only really been looking around this particular site for a month or so. could u explain a little further about what u mean?

[quote]David1991 wrote:
basically when i see methods of progressions the main ones are adding weight[/quote]

Honestly worry about this one the most BY FAR when you are in the gym. I’m not talking singles or doubles, the usual 6-12 reps for movements done in bodybuilding style.

Three key things to becoming massive in my opinion…

Using very heavy weights on basic exercises(this includes curls calf raises etc)
Eat large amounts of food
Consistency with the above for significant time(years)

Please please please do not make it more complicated than this.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
David1991 wrote:
basically when i see methods of progressions the main ones are adding weight

Honestly worry about this one the most BY FAR when you are in the gym. I’m not talking singles or doubles, the usual 6-12 reps for movements done in bodybuilding style.

Three key things to becoming massive in my opinion…

Using very heavy weights on basic exercises(this includes curls calf raises etc)
Eat large amounts of food
Consistency with the above for significant time(years)

Please please please do not make it more complicated than this.

[/quote]

i completely agree that adding weight and eating high calories consistently is important for gaining mass but what about the other forms of progression? i mean if u add a rep to each set u did from the last week wouldnt that be a lot of extra force on the muscle? same with adding a set

although its not the only one here is an article explaining my point http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/3_ideas_for_tougher_workouts&cr=

your the 150lb 15yo that wanted to do the V-Diet arn’t you?

[quote]pf wrote:
your the 150lb 15yo that wanted to do the V-Diet arn’t you?[/quote]

no i’m the 155lb. 17y/o who thought about doing it but after listening to people here decided against it. not that thats at all relevant to this thread

Adding weight to the bar is the most important form of progression because you have so much room to progress.

Second to that would be to add reps to a given weight but that’s not giving you much room to progress long-term because you may go from 6-12 reps at a given weight in 3-4 weeks. And going from 8-25+ will net you diminishing returns for adding size and strength.

Time drops kinds suck IMO. One, because it’s very limited because you can only drop so far and two because it hinders the best form of progression; weight on the bar.

And you can only do more work in the same amount of time for so long before your strength on your big exercises suffers which screws up #1.

[quote]derek wrote:
Adding weight to the bar is the most important form of progression because you have so much room to progress.

Second to that would be to add reps to a given weight but that’s not giving you much room to progress long-term because you may go from 6-12 reps at a given weight in 3-4 weeks. And going from 8-25+ will net you diminishing returns for adding size and strength.

Time drops kinds suck IMO. One, because it’s very limited because you can only drop so far and two because it hinders the best form of progression; weight on the bar.

And you can only do more work in the same amount of time for so long before your strength on your big exercises suffers which screws up #1.[/quote]

hm, i’ve actually heard some experts/trainers say that weight progression isnt the best way because it just verifies that u did in fact progress. when he said that i was confused but i’m just saying.

about adding weight though isnt that fairly limited, especially for those like u who go to failure each time? i mean for me i generally start lighter than i can go and then add weight each subsequent workout, but once i get to failure in a workout if i add more weight (even small amounts like 2.5lb.) i just start to drop in reps

A good method would be to have a set rep range, say 6-12. When you work with a weight, you want to be able to get at least 6 reps. If you can, then work with it for a 2-4 weeks until you can get 12, and then add five or ten pounds.

[quote]David1991 wrote:
hm, i’ve actually heard some experts/trainers say that weight progression isnt the best way because it just verifies that u did in fact progress. when he said that i was confused but i’m just saying.[/quote]

If you read that, I have to say that #1, that was no expert and #2, that’s gotta be the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read regarding strength training.

[quote]
about adding weight though isnt that fairly limited, especially for those like u who go to failure each time? i mean for me i generally start lighter than i can go and then add weight each subsequent workout, but once i get to failure in a workout if i add more weight (even small amounts like 2.5lb.) i just start to drop in reps[/quote]

Take the squat for instance. I started out training with a 95lb squat. Many years of progression later, I squatted a PR of 500 raw (one rep). That’s progression. Not nearly as limited as you may be thinking.

[quote]eeu743 wrote:
A good method would be to have a set rep range, say 6-12. When you work with a weight, you want to be able to get at least 6 reps. If you can, then work with it for a 2-4 weeks until you can get 12, and then add five or ten pounds.[/quote]

ive heard of that too, but in that case ur working to failure basically every workout

[quote]derek wrote:
David1991 wrote:

about adding weight though isnt that fairly limited, especially for those like u who go to failure each time? i mean for me i generally start lighter than i can go and then add weight each subsequent workout, but once i get to failure in a workout if i add more weight (even small amounts like 2.5lb.) i just start to drop in reps

Take the squat for instance. I started out training with a 95lb squat. Many years of progression later, I squatted a PR of 500 raw (one rep). That’s progression. Not nearly as limited as you may be thinking.

[/quote]

well thats how i trained when first starting. i cant really compare that to now because i did more splits, whereas now i do more upper/lower or full body for the time being. also since i was new i obviously got newb gains. i’m sure the weight can definitely keep going up and if u switch rep ranges every 4 weeks or so it will help u start at a new max for a different rep range and continue. but like i said by doing that ur going to failure every workout, sometimes for multiple sets of the same exercise.

Here’s what I do for assistance exercises. I examine the sticking points in my squat, bench, and deadlift. I pick assistance exercises that either work the sticking point, or work the muscles that are most responsible for movement at the sticking point (obviously I do more exercises than that but I put a emphasis on the sticking point.) For assistance exercises I have a rep range that I work up, and if I hit the top of the rep range or feel like I could add more weight I add 5-10 lbs. If I stall out on a lift, or my sticking point on a lift changes I’ll change the assistant exercise. This can be changed for bodybuilding purposes in that instead of targeting sticking points you can target weak muscle groups.

Aside for the 20 rep squats I did, I never really went over 5 reps in the squat in my entire training life.

You DO NOT have to change rep ranges every 4 weeks. Where did you read that?

[quote]David1991 wrote:

hm, i’ve actually heard some experts/trainers say that weight progression isnt the best way because it just verifies that u did in fact progress. when he said that i was confused but i’m just saying.
[/quote]

Besides indicating progress, it also forces your muscles to work harder causing more progress, whoever said that doesn’t seem to know his stuff.

[quote]derek wrote:
Aside for the 20 rep squats I did, I never really went over 5 reps in the squat in my entire training life.

You DO NOT have to change rep ranges every 4 weeks. Where did you read that?[/quote]

i know u dont have to. personally i’m thinking of staying in the lower rep ranges for squats myself just because i hate high rep squats/leg exercises.
but about the changing rep ranges i just said that because that way u could work in a different range maybe just below ur max and then get to ur max and progress further. (same would work for switching exercises)
it doesnt make a lot of sense to me to just constantly stay at the same rep range for the same exercise for a really long period of time, eventually u wouldnt be able to add anymore weight unless u were eating a ton of food and gaining a lot of weight each week and even then there’d be problems

[quote]eeu743 wrote:
A good method would be to have a set rep range, say 6-12. When you work with a weight, you want to be able to get at least 6 reps. If you can, then work with it for a 2-4 weeks until you can get 12, and then add five or ten pounds.[/quote]

I don’t think you could jump from 6 to 12 reps on a given weight in just 2-4 weeks.

If I’m doing 3 x 6-12 I usually add a rep per week.

For example:
Week 1: 3x6
Week 2: 3x7

Week 7: 3x12

If you can do that in 2-4 weeks then that’s impressive to me.

A beginner would be able to do that in several weeks. More advanced guys obviously not, but beyond scrutinizing the little details that aren’t important that method is probably the most traditional, tried-and-true way of getting bigger and stronger with bodybuilding in mind.

David1991: You seem to be afraid of going to muscular failure in your workouts. Why?

For most people that train for bodybuilding, not going to failure with your working weight is like having sex and stopping before you reach orgasm. It just doesn’t make any sense.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
A beginner would be able to do that in several weeks. More advanced guys obviously not, but beyond scrutinizing the little details that aren’t important that method is probably the most traditional, tried-and-true way of getting bigger and stronger with bodybuilding in mind.

David1991: You seem to be afraid of going to muscular failure in your workouts. Why?

For most people that train for bodybuilding, not going to failure with your working weight is like having sex and stopping before you reach orgasm. It just doesn’t make any sense.[/quote]

lol it’s not that i’m afraid of it it’s just that i hear its not good to do all the time. Like i said when i first started training i did a lot more “bodybuilding” type training. body part splits, training to failure, etc… but since then i’ve heard a lot about how full body or upper/lower splits are better. and that u should focus on progression more than failure. with that there was HST which talks about starting significantly lighter than ur max and going from there progressing each workout so those principles have had a big impact on my training. i used to train every set to failure actually, just adjusting the weight so i could get the right reps.