T Nation

Is Poliquin Insane?

In one article, Charles Poliquin wrote:

“People are kidding themselves about how many carbs they need. There’s a difference between a mouth and a vacuum. Forty to fifty grams per day of good carbs is plenty for most of the population. That’s why there are so many fat dieticians and personal trainers. Nutrient timing makes a difference, too. A lean 200-pound man can keep his leanness eating 250 grams of carbs a day, if 200 of them are taken post-workout and the other 50 grams spread throughout the day in low glycemic carbs. Remember, I said “stay lean,” not get lean. Get lean first if you want to eat carbs. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can eat.”

50 grams of carbs? 200 total calories from carbs? Even at a 2000 calorie diet (most on here probably need far more than that a day), thats 10% carbs. Does that sound ridiculously low to anyone else?

Am I missing something here? Is this only for people who don’t work out?

No, he’s not insane.

I rarely go over 50. Havent in many years. When I do, I get fat.

Play both sides of the line in football, only breaking for specials, compete in Olifting and play softball…so no, endurance is not an issue.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
In one article, Charles Poliquin wrote:

“People are kidding themselves about how many carbs they need. There’s a difference between a mouth and a vacuum. Forty to fifty grams per day of good carbs is plenty for most of the population. That’s why there are so many fat dieticians and personal trainers. Nutrient timing makes a difference, too. A lean 200-pound man can keep his leanness eating 250 grams of carbs a day, if 200 of them are taken post-workout and the other 50 grams spread throughout the day in low glycemic carbs. Remember, I said “stay lean,” not get lean. Get lean first if you want to eat carbs. The leaner you are, the more carbs you can eat.”

50 grams of carbs? 200 total calories from carbs? Even at a 2000 calorie diet (most on here probably need far more than that a day), thats 10% carbs. Does that sound ridiculously low to anyone else?

Am I missing something here? Is this only for people who don’t work out? [/quote]

Seems fine to me unless you are trying to gain some weight and have skinny-boy syndrome. I don’t eat more than 10% of cals in carbs each day unless there is a cheat or i’m using surge. I usually don’t count the surge because I only do it right after ball-busting battle training sessions.

Getting lean is all about replacing all carbs with spinach and broccoli etc. Oat meal is for people who get regular sports energy systems work and have good carb tolerance. veggies are for fat boys.

-chris

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
No, he’s not insane.

I rarely go over 50. Havent in many years. When I do, I get fat.

Play both sides of the line in football, only breaking for specials, compete in Olifting and play softball…so no, endurance is not an issue.[/quote]

What IL caz isn’t telling you is that he is old school anabolic diet. Secret weapon :stuck_out_tongue:

You still CHO up IL Caz?

-chris

I dont know, I’ve always been under the impression that, say, a 20% carb diet is getting into the “low carb” zone.

So going 10% sounds like it would result in a lot of brain fog, sluggishness, weakness, etc.

Did you guys who eat 50g of carbs a day get this when you started? Did you progressively lower your carbs to avoid a big hit?

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I dont know, I’ve always been under the impression that, say, a 20% carb diet is getting into the “low carb” zone.

So going 10% sounds like it would result in a lot of brain fog, sluggishness, weakness, etc.

Did you guys who eat 50g of carbs a day get this when you started? Did you progressively lower your carbs to avoid a big hit?[/quote]

I hear ya on this one! I’m still struggling with the concept of eliminating carbs (complex starchy) from my diet or limiting them to post-workout.

SO…I’m actually trying it, only fruits and veggies and fruits are limited to 2 a day (besides post workout) the rest is veggies… not sure how this will work but today was first day and I felt fine, actually better then when eating oatmeal for breakfast with protein…I guess it all depends on your carb tolerance…do they make you gain weight or not???

[quote]realpeanutbutter wrote:
IL Cazzo wrote:
No, he’s not insane.

I rarely go over 50. Havent in many years. When I do, I get fat.

Play both sides of the line in football, only breaking for specials, compete in Olifting and play softball…so no, endurance is not an issue.

What IL caz isn’t telling you is that he is old school anabolic diet. Secret weapon :stuck_out_tongue:

You still CHO up IL Caz?

-chris[/quote]

Sometimes…my carb up days have the tendency to turn into eat everything in sight.

I’m on the VD right now lol. So the low carb part didnt bother me at all.

Also, how did you guys figure out how many calories you need?

I used the Katch-McArdle forumula (lean body mass factored into a formula, multiplied by an activity factor) and I came out to something like 2900 (I’m 5 10’ish, 200 lbs, scale says 23% bodyfat, so I plugged 153 into the formula and “moderate” activity).

So lets say I eat 2500, if I set my carbs at 10 percent, fats at 30, and protein at 60, I’m looking at 62.5 grams of carbs, 83 grams of fat, 375 grams of protein.

That sound about right to you guys? By right I mean plausible, not mathmatically correct.

I stay lean with about 350-400 carbs a day. Carbs alone don’t make you fat, it’s the big picture.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Did you guys who eat 50g of carbs a day get this when you started? Did you progressively lower your carbs to avoid a big hit?[/quote]

No, I did it overnight and will likely never go back. 50 grams would be a bit of a slip day for me. 30 - 40 usually, except load days.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, how did you guys figure out how many calories you need?

I used the Katch-McArdle forumula (lean body mass factored into a formula, multiplied by an activity factor) and I came out to something like 2900 (I’m 5 10’ish, 200 lbs, scale says 23% bodyfat, so I plugged 153 into the formula and “moderate” activity).

So lets say I eat 2500, if I set my carbs at 10 percent, fats at 30, and protein at 60, I’m looking at 62.5 grams of carbs, 83 grams of fat, 375 grams of protein.

That sound about right to you guys? By right I mean plausible, not mathmatically correct.[/quote]

Assuming 23% is fairly accurate for your BF we could have you dropping fat and gaining muscle at an alarming rate for at least a while until your BF got down to about low teens. You’re not a big guy, but 2500 is low, by a chunk, if you plan on getting much more muscular.

[quote]Roy wrote:
I stay lean with about 350-400 carbs a day. Carbs alone don’t make you fat, it’s the big picture.[/quote]

This is true, but high carb/low fat eating, while not outright catabolic, IS non, if not anti anabolic.

[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
I’m on the VD right now lol. So the low carb part didnt bother me at all.[/quote]

Indeed, Il Cazzo is an old AD vet and a powerlifter/strongman guy. What made you go for the V-Diet?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Also, how did you guys figure out how many calories you need?

I used the Katch-McArdle forumula (lean body mass factored into a formula, multiplied by an activity factor) and I came out to something like 2900 (I’m 5 10’ish, 200 lbs, scale says 23% bodyfat, so I plugged 153 into the formula and “moderate” activity).

So lets say I eat 2500, if I set my carbs at 10 percent, fats at 30, and protein at 60, I’m looking at 62.5 grams of carbs, 83 grams of fat, 375 grams of protein.

That sound about right to you guys? By right I mean plausible, not mathmatically correct.

Assuming 23% is fairly accurate for your BF we could have you dropping fat and gaining muscle at an alarming rate for at least a while until your BF got down to about low teens. You’re not a big guy, but 2500 is low, by a chunk, if you plan on getting much more muscular.[/quote]

I plan on losing 20 lbs of fat, seeing where I am with everything, and setting a new goal from there.

I’ll try this whole “dropping damn near all my carbs” thing and see where it takes me.

Yeah, it’s not an issue once you adapt which for me was about 2 weeks. Now I feel much better on the Anabolic Diet.

Also for those numbers you were figuring, usually its the other way 60% fat and 30% protein, not 60% pro and 30% fat, on the low carb diet fat is now your energy source but comsuming so much protein would probably fuck that up. For fat loss granted you might wanna keep the protein higher and more stable as you drop cals, but still a ratio of like 40 % pro and 50-55% fat is better.

Ok, I’m sorry to bitch here, but this shit just seems impossible.

Going for 2500 calories a day, at 60% protein, eating six times a day, thats 62.5 grams of protein a meal.

Now, lets say I do something really wacky and have eggs as my protein source for breakfast. Eating only the whites to keep the fat down, I’d have to eat 17 (seven-fucking-teen) to get 61.1 grams of protein.

This is absolutely crazy to me; I cant afford to eat a whole dozen and a half of eggs every morning! On my low calorie days, no less!

And then considering I’d be cutting out the calorie-dense starches (potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice, etc), and relying on vegetables for carbs, that means I’ll be eating considerably MORE (in terms of physical size of the food) at each meal.

Wtf? How is this possible?

How do you guys manage this?

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
IL Cazzo wrote:
I’m on the VD right now lol. So the low carb part didnt bother me at all.

Indeed, Il Cazzo is an old AD vet and a powerlifter/strongman guy. What made you go for the V-Diet? [/quote]

I’m moving to TE/DE full time rather than playing ol/DT so I can afford to lose about 20lbs. As I said, over the last year my carb ups turned into insane food orgies…mmmm food orgies.

Also, after Dan John did it, I figured I’d try it. If for no other reason than to retrain the brain and to see if I could do it.

I must say, all these reports of people not being able to lift heavy and all this other shiite, is well, shiite if you ask me. Today’s workout was as good as, if not better, than anyother workout I’ve had in a long time. Heavy and intense and dense.

After this, I’ll transition back to a pure-er version of the AD, but with a shortened carb-up…like one day and keep the junk for special occasions.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Ok, I’m sorry to bitch here, but this shit just seems impossible.

Going for 2500 calories a day, at 60% protein, eating six times a day, thats 62.5 grams of protein a meal.

Now, lets say I do something really wacky and have eggs as my protein source for breakfast. Eating only the whites to keep the fat down, I’d have to eat 17 (seven-fucking-teen) to get 61.1 grams of protein.

This is absolutely crazy to me; I cant afford to eat a whole dozen and a half of eggs every morning! On my low calorie days, no less!

And then considering I’d be cutting out the calorie-dense starches (potatoes, sweet potatoes, rice, etc), and relying on vegetables for carbs, that means I’ll be eating considerably MORE (in terms of physical size of the food) at each meal.

Wtf? How is this possible?

How do you guys manage this?[/quote]

Well, on the AD, your fat % is higher than your proteing %. Healthy fats mostly.

As far as protein, haha, you’ll have to to what big men have done for decades…drink protein shakes to up your intake. Be thankful for stuff like Metabolic Drive…i’m only 26 but I can remember the absolute horrid taste of protein powders from when I started. I can only imagine what they were like in the 70s and 80s.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Ok, I’m sorry to bitch here, but this shit just seems impossible.[/quote]

Eat the entire egg. Eat cheese. Eat all-natural peanut butter. Eat mixed nuts. Use whey protein. Etc.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Roy wrote:
I stay lean with about 350-400 carbs a day. Carbs alone don’t make you fat, it’s the big picture.

This is true, but high carb/low fat eating, while not outright catabolic, IS non, if not anti anabolic.[/quote]

Can you elaborate?

I thought insulin was “the most anabolic hormone in the body”…Have we been misinformed?

(this is not an attack - I sincerely want to learn)