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Is Overeem Doing Steroids?


#1


What do you guys think?

He's deff. grown. He look amazing.

He attributes it to eating a lot and adding horse meat to his diet...

He's past some drug tests, but doesn't tend to fight in the US where we have stricter/regular testing...

What say you guys?


#2

Guess what there are ways to beat drug tests. Is he on them idk, has he done them YES. Has a lot of his competition YES. Olympic sports have stricter testing and guys get away with it all the time.


#3

Do you say this based on his physique, how quickly he got it, or something else?


#4

I say probably. But to be honest, if I somehow found out he was clean I wouldn't be surprised. He's always been extremely lean with long muscle bellies. It's no coincidence that people were saying he was too big for the LHW division. Some guys have great genetics.


#5

I say the speed at which he gained.
The fact that his gas tank doesn't seem hurt at all, in fact it seems better (a sign of drug use)
The long absence from US competition

If anything though his weight gain and success at HW should speak volumes at the lack of skill in the HW division. Reem was midtier at LHW.


#6

The absence from the U.S. is more due in part to him wanting to compete in multiple organizations. (strikeforce, dream, K-1) In all likelihood he would not be allowed to do so in the UFC and strikeforce doesnt have the roster or number of events for him to be competing there 4 times a year. Im not saying he's never done any illegal drugs, but when he was still a 205 pounder, at 6'5 you could tell he had really good genetics. Also, gaining 35 pounds of lean muscle from 2007-present is far from unheard of, especially if the guy really eats like he says he does in that video.

And for the record, he's going to sweep the strikeforce grand prix this year, and beat fedor handily in the process.


#7

And on the topic of him being "midtier" at LHW, its obvious that not only has his physique improved a lot in the last 3 years, but so has his skill (which im sure is due in part to his added strength and size.) He was always a very good grappler (just look up his european ADCC videos on youtube and watch how he handled the competition) and perhaps his biggest downfall was his endurance, which is the reason why he moved up in weight. And you'd have to be crazy not to think he's developed into one of the best strikers in MMA, he's looked consistently phenomenal and won the K-1 gp convincingly. I dont think this is exposing a lack of talent at HW, i feel it's exposing his own incredible development in MMA.


#8

His striking looks a lot better than his pride days. Not sure about his ground game, but chances are he'll hang with werdum on the ground. The adcc trials was ages ago and he wasn't exactly dealing with high level guys. I don't believe he beat any black belts, even brown.


#9

it's obvious you're a big fan, but hw's are less skilled period. denial of that is silly


#10

Read this article:

http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline

Most guys that get popped don't even look like they're on anything.
And the one's that do are pretty obvious...

Of the 32 fighters we know who did pop... only 34% were successful in their bouts.
So a better question might be...to take a page out of Dana White's book... "does it fucking matter?"

More amateurs are on banned substances (less testing) than pro's. Go to any grappling tournament and you'll
instantly see what I mean. Keep in mind banned substances also include: diuretics, stimulants, painkillers, etc. Hell melvin guillard got coked up for a fight. Tibau and Alves popped for diuretics and when it's obvious they were too big for their weightclass. There is FAR worse to be worried about. So if you're an up and coming fighter you just have to accept that it's a part of combat sports (professional sports in general) and just do your thing. Whatever that might be...

As far as overeem. He's far bigger but seems to have suffered no ill-effects to rapid size gain. He's far bigger BUT faster and stronger. Hell his technique IMPROVED. He seems suspect as fuck...

You have to think, this is a tourney where 2 of the fighters already have tested positive and overeem has been avoiding fighting in america like the fucking plague. That said, I don't think he's dumb at all. He'll probably pass any and all testing then go on to face fedor in the finals. I'll have my MMA-nerd wetdream come to life and we'll get to see a memorable battle that will create some awesome .gif's and internet meme's.


#11

Im a fan, only because when someone with as much potential as reem comes along, i am curious as to how far they can go, and because you can always expect a great fight. However, id say hes far from my favorite, i still cringe everytime i watch the way he handled cro cop and more recently in K-1, Aerts. And honestly i dont think the current overall HW talent pool is really any less than any other division. While on a broad scope HWs sometimes tend to be less technical they bring a level of power and strength in many cases that can make even a sloppy striker extremely dangerous. When you get guys like overeem who can put together spectacular kickboxing/grappling with his sheer size, strength and athleticism, its always fun to watch. Thats something you dont really get in any other division.


#12

I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. He wasn't a natural LHW to begin with. The weight-cut ALWAYS drained him. Hell, he'd brought it up numerous times in Pride. It's no surprise that he's at home as a HW, as he can actually fight and train to his true potential, without having to worry about the cut. To put it all in perspective, when I'm back in garrison (stateside or Germany), I typically have to worry about my weight, bf%, and running, as this stuff is really important to the powers-that-be.

Being out here, I haven't had to worry about that stuff too much, and can train how I like. This has caused me to get bigger and stronger (par for the course with a deployment.) Well, you can imagine the rumors and jokes that surface that I'm partaking in some drugs of the steroidal nature. Moral of the story, 'Reem was a big sum'bitch who depleted himself to compete in Pride. When he finally stopped, over the course of three and a half years, he's shown his true potential, both in size and skill. Cut him some slack...


#13

Hmm, you sound like you're in agreement. Myself I equate technique with skill. Just saying; I agree with everything in your post.


#14

Probably. So do lots of other guys.


#15

Yep. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on, wouldn't be surprised if he isn't. But to assume he's on steriods just because he's bigger and better than ever is a bit of a stretch, IMO


#16

I see what you are saying. IMO athleticism/other natural attributes plays a role in "skill" as well though. A guy like GSP simply could not perform the way he does were it not largely in part to his natural athleticism. Same with guys like Shane Carwin at HW, who is so effective largely because his overwhelming strength and size (and thats hoping he can prove that the last 2 minutes of the lesnar fight wont happen again.) However if you are looking strictly at technique, then i would agree that except for the elite few, the HWs are "sloppier" than most other divisions.


#17

Only had time to quickly scan through all the replies, but just to bring my five cents to the conversation.

Personally, I believe at least 9 out of 10 professional MMA competitors use steroids. Its not all about putting on tons of lean muscle to grain strength, its also the ammount of training they do. It's a shitload of work they put in gym day to day, week to week, recovery would be pretty impossible without roids, even if you were a professional athlete and could put all the time and work on your recovery in the world.

Then there is the obvious advantage in the size, strength and endurance.
For what I know, the athletes are only tested just a few days before or after, can't really recall which one. The thing is, you don't even have to be a doctor to find out how long you need to take time off the roids in order to test clean for the testing day.

Considering the fighters in the UFC usually compete about once in three months or even less frequently, it leaves you plenty of time to dose yourself with what ever drugs you want and still test clean. Basically it takes an idiot or a massive ammount of fail to test positive nowadays.

As for weather Reem does roids or not, to me it seems pretty obvious. I'm not blaming him, because thats what a lot of people on the top do. Before they get a serious testing system with random tests from time to time, I don't think anyone should blame Reem for doing roids. The reason he has a shitload of more impressive lean muscle compared to most of the other heavyweights, thank his genetics and training for that, not roids.


#18

On occasion they do randomly test, Sherk was randomly tested after he got busted and came up clean.

I dont know about 9 out of 10, but im sure a lot of them do use illegal measures to aid their performance, mainly for the same reasons that you posted. Bottom line is nowadays, it aint really unfair anymore since theres a good chance the guy youre facing is doing them too. And i agree overeems training/nutrition/genetics has more to do with his size than steroids IF he actually is using them.


#19

Oh man, sometimes I wish we'd had a sticky for this kind of shit. Every few weeks it's the same...

Did X juice?
Can you get that big without steroids?
Why did X juice, I think it's unnecessary and bad!
...

It all comes down to these arguments:

1. Moral argument, Malum in se.
Juicing is wrong, period. Because X said so.

If your god or your readyness to uphold the law is so strong, arguing here is futile.
In a sense, you could say this is the best argument, really, but on the other hand I expect the one to deliver it to be a drugfree, noncheating, model citizen.
Since I never met someone admirable in my life who has never consumed any drugs at all and also never cheated in his life with regard to anything (games, girlfriends, promises) ... I

won't hold my breath.
Also, some countries have no laws against steroids. So, why should an athlete like Overeem, who competes in Japan and has never failed a test (which only concludes if you used in a

certain timespan) not use AAS when he is allowed to? No sport forbids you to ever use drugs.
Since the pro world is in certain sports internally very open about it, why shouldn't an athlete juice then?
If he wants to put on size, it may be a VERY good option to consider, an investment with which he can save lots of time and jointpain.
Overeem would have been an idiot NOT to juice.
Sidenote: If I had to bet money I'd bet a lot of it without blinking that Fedor used AAS like many, many other known heavyweights.

2. You shouldn't juice, because it's unnatural and ..
2.1 ... unhealthy!
Could be true. But a lot of other things are easily more harmful. Should all athletes be not allowed to smoke, for instance?
How about making weight, a sure way to increase a fighter's injury potential?
If someone is truly concerned with safety & health, he should strive to ban the whole process of making weight, or better, push for weigh-ins just before a fight.
The whole argument gets completely crazy since the whole lifestyle of a pro athlete is FAR, FAR more harmful then, for example modest AAS usage and since some stacks are geared

very effectively towards better regeneration and rehab, this alone could mean a case for juicing, if it's all about health.

2.2 ... you never know how your body reacts, it may damage you permanently!
A typical argument that often invokes the grotesque images of olympic monstrosities (think of female chinese or ex-soviet athletes).
Since no one died from a steroid overdose while our western societies drown in alcohol and hands out prozac & aspirin like candy, it's hard to see a point, especially since dosages for

an amateur or a smart pro who chooses to use under his own free will is a whole different ballgame.
To be clear: PEDs, especially diuretics can be merciless on your body. You can die when fooling around with this stuff!
Forcing others -especially young athletes who look up to their coach for advice- to ingest very potent drugs is a criminal and disgraceful behaviour!
Bottom line: like many things, Steroids and other PEDs can be potentially bad for you, so this argument is not enough to warrant a PED inquisition.

2.3 ... abs aren't everything. (with regard to the sport of MMA: Look at Fedor, look at Big Country, look at...)
It's not about looks. Most athletes don't care about looking lean and fit as long as they can traing longer, harder or overcome injuires, anxiety, too much water weight or fatigue. Some

use PEDs only in order to get some quality sleep.
However, some sportsmen depend on good looks.
GSP, the MMA-Star, has among the best sponsor deals partly because of his athletic body.
Under Armour^tm couldn't care less if he's on a four or eight fight winning streak, in contrast to the degree of compartmentalization of his abdominal muscles-
No eight pack hardbody, no contract.
So even mere looks could be important and, for example, decide wether an athlete's child could go to an average or expensive college.
This is not as rare as some might think.
Huge muscles alone can help to get media attention.
Bob Sapp, Mariusz Pudzanowski got rich BECAUSE of Vitamin S and would probably have never got a lucrative shot in MMA without usage.

2.4 ... did I mention it's unnatural? Sports are a means to educate what you can and can not do with your body.
The naturalistic argument is, similar to argument #1, appropriate for a full-fledged mormon.
Since we use airplanes, get vaccinated and use condoms, it's pretty clear what most societies think in essence of this idea.
As an extension, it's instructive to look at what crazy stuff people came up with in sports.
Sharkskin suits, oxygen tents, spiked cyberboots, the list goes on and on even without PEDs.
Hmm. Maybe we have to look a few dozen centuries back to see honest athletes?
Ironically, banned PEDs are as old as the olympic games.
Same thing with crazy devices: Did you know ancient longjumpers used so called "halteres" for a few extra inches?
According to legend, even the nakedness of ancient, greek athletes became customary only after a surprising nude victory, when a competitor lost his loincloth during a run.
Apparently bc-athletes didn't care much for "god given" limitations either.

3 - you gain an unfair advantage...
3.1 ...against a non user.
If someone is willing or able to invest more in the persuit of athletic goals, he might have an advantage which can be more significant then mere talent.
The first time I realized this was as a child, when my brother lost to younger boy in swimming. I couldn't believe this at first, but my brother shrugged and said:
"His dad is coaching him like crazy, he makes sure he never misses training and even buys him special sport-food (protein shakes, dextrose- my mouth stood wide open)."
All of this can be seen as unfair, just like the ever-omnious "talent".
Today, invested money can allow one athlete to be better equipped, order fancy supplements, have access to an oxygen deprived training facility or dorm, top notch international

coaches, an nutritionist who conveniently provides meals through a catering service right to your doorstep, specialized medical personal...
PEDs are no magic pills here.
What would you rather prefer as a martial artist? A stack of growth hormone+testosterone for six weeks OR a six week training course with red devil team (Fedor as coach and a

translator included) ?
For many trainees, PEDs wouldn't be near the top of a rather comprehensive list.
Especially in the information age, it's more a dilemma for a pro.

3.2 ...against a fellow amateur in competition.
The best, perhaps even the only real argument.
Some PEDs can give an amateur a clear, decisive boost within a certain timeframe.
EPO-like substances , for instance, have a big, measureable impact on endurance. Just like that.
An overtrained fighter will be more aggressive and determined the next day with a Testosteronepatch on his scrotum over night. Pure hormonal magic.
These can be pretty foolproof both in terms of health and legal risks, if done correctly.
The idea of "cheating" will come up here pretty stubbornly, for two reasons:
It seems like, in contrast to other "unfair" advantages like better trainers, there was practically no invested work here (curiously, the health risk seem a non issue).
Which our puritanical societies frown so sternly upon. No sweat = devil's tricks.
On the other hand, monetary advantages are super ok. That's also a cultural thing.
Instead of demanding a seperate juicer's class in competition, one could as well lament the fact that poor schmoh's do not fight seperately from the rich guys.
Competition is seldom very fair and played on the exact same level.
There is a lot apart from training that the aspiring athlete can do today besides sweating in the dojo.
I believe Amateurs should have a trustworthy coach that provides the right opponents for his pupil.
And help him get his priorities straight.

3.3 ...which leads to a vicous spiral - everybody must use PEDs
Honestly, pro sport is so full of all kinds of drugs, a grown man shouldn't believe politicians can legislate our way into greener, drug-freer pastures.
A pro has to know if he's got to juice. If you're a sprinter, chances are you have to juice if you want an olympic medal:
There are so many winners cought syringe-handed- Greene , Gatlin, Montgomery... Crazyness.
And even Bolt with his bizarre genetic makup smells mighty suspicous if you look at his teammates.
It gets laughable when so many pros claim to have asthma or UFC's Dana White treats Roy Nelson with contempt because he has no abs! Shame on him! The pig!
Our society may bark legally at PEDs like a good, upright german shephard, but purrs dreamily when superaryan athlets like Todd Duffee smile their HGH-enhanced smile. (I think as a

small boy I had less gaps with half my milk teeth gone)
As a pro , you might have to consider a lot of things.
Steroids may be one of these options and if that's that case, know that at least drug free Schwarzfahrer won't cast the first stone.


#20

Is it just me or was the lady in that video asking some annoying questions?