Is Once a Week Enough (Prof. X).

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

I like when a new routine comes out, people rush to try it and rave about the benefit of said routine, not realizing that what they are experiencing is a combination of the concept of ‘mirror training’ - doing the opposite of what you’ve been doing - and perhaps just hitting stuff from different angles.

This is not always the case and the picture is much grander than what I am describing, but it is an element that is hard to tease out from the novelty of new stimulus, in order to quantify the merits of routine’s particular structure.

What I would like to see is more articles teaching trainees - new and advanced - how to better read their bodies. Period. Just look at how some of the advanced guys discuss their training and recovery methods. Hell, one of my friends now trains with the “whatever I feel like doing” mentality. He loves it and sees the results he is after.

We are all built differently but certain physiological responses need to be read properly. I know I can watch YouTube videos of shoulder presses and raises and my shoulders would probably grow. Same for my upper back.

Chest? Calves? Forget it. I’ve started going concentration-camp on my calves and they are growing (thanks, Stu) but I understand that however the fuck I structure my routine, I need to make allowances for my body’s specifics.

People love to circle jerk over the PubMed studies and new vernacular - the “science” of this game - and forget about the importance of sensitizing themselves to the “art” of it.

22

[quote]Protoculture wrote:

Tell you the truth (but first puts on fire retardant jacket) I’m willing to bet that DC’s success is primarily due to it’s extreme focus on DIET (ie: 600+ grams of protein per day + heavy olive oil etc…) rather than simply increasing “growth opportunities”…
[/quote]

DC recommends 2xbw in protein. For most people, thats closer to 400g than 600+. This shit is grossly exaggerated. Because Dante made a post about him eating 600g of protein a day when he weighed 320lbs, now that recommendation carries over to the 180-220 lbs guys too? Because he has trainees who absolutely cant gain weight boatloading the olive oil, then everyone does?

If you took the most successful systems for building extremely large amounts of muscle mass, weather it be DC, split training, wetside, the Texas method, etc, and boiled them down to their basic, bare bones elements, they would look very similar.

Get strong as fuck on key movements, effectively stimulate muscles (ie, fatigue), train as often as your body allows, eat a lot of the right food, sleep enough, repeat.

Why are we arguing semantics here? Because people want to be told what to do instead of taking the 3 weeks it takes to figure out exactly how often you can train bodyparts.

23

[quote]Popiapang wrote:
THis is more of a question for Professor X, but i guess i will ask everyone. When you train once a week do you feel like you work that muscle so hard on that one day that it takes a full 7 days to recover? or do you feel like maybe on the 5th you could work it again but do not for other reasons?

I ask because i used to train once ever 7 days and by the 4th or 5th day i really wanted to train it again, it just felt like it needed it. This lead me to try upper/lower splits and what not.[/quote]

if you gotta wait that long to heal, you’re either not eating right, or not sleeping enough.

i like to think that stretching greatly improves recovery time

24

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
I like when a new routine comes out, people rush to try it and rave about the benefit of said routine, not realizing that what they are experiencing is a combination of the concept of ‘mirror training’ - doing the opposite of what you’ve been doing - and perhaps just hitting stuff from different angles.

This is not always the case and the picture is much grander than what I am describing, but it is an element that is hard to tease out from the novelty of new stimulus, in order to quantify the merits of routine’s particular structure.

What I would like to see is more articles teaching trainees - new and advanced - how to better read their bodies. Period. Just look at how some of the advanced guys discuss their training and recovery methods. Hell, one of my friends now trains with the “whatever I feel like doing” mentality. He loves it and sees the results he is after.

We are all built differently but certain physiological responses need to be read properly. I know I can watch YouTube videos of shoulder presses and raises and my shoulders would probably grow. Same for my upper back.

Chest? Calves? Forget it. I’ve started going concentration-camp on my calves and they are growing (thanks, Stu) but I understand that however the fuck I structure my routine, I need to make allowances for my body’s specifics.

People love to circle jerk over the PubMed studies and new vernacular - the “science” of this game - and forget about the importance of sensitizing themselves to the “art” of it.[/quote]

Hit the nail on the f’ing head with this post.

25

[quote]Protoculture wrote:
A study a while back, I’m sure you’re familiar with it, discovered that sumo wrestlers have more lean mass than powerlifters and bodybuilders of the same height even though they barely weight train…

Sure, they are fat fucks, but that still tells me that FOOD INTAKE has far greater impact on anabolism than frequency or volume.
[/quote]

From the greek:

hyper-in excess
trophy- to nourish

Therefore hypertrophy can be loosely translated to mean “an excess of nutrition”. Well, now doesn’t that make sense?

Your activity will of course determine what tissue hypertrophies. If you sit on your ass watching day time talk shows and soap operas while eating an excess of calories, your adipose tissue will hypertrophy. If you go to the gym and bust your ass trying to get progressively stronger your muscle mass will hypertrophy.

[quote]
Tell you the truth (but first puts on fire retardant jacket) I’m willing to bet that DC’s success is primarily due to it’s extreme focus on DIET (ie: 600+ grams of protein per day + heavy olive oil etc…) rather than simply increasing “growth opportunities”…

Ok, I think I’ve pissed enough people off for one night…[/quote]

I’d agree that part of DC’s success is due to the focus on eating big (and protein intake), but as Stronghold said, Dante does not advise everyone to eat 600 grams or protein/day, or drink bottles of olive oil.

It’s success also has to do with the focus on lifting big, and on increasing the frequency of progression (this goes hand in hand with the lifting big part).

Think about it this way, if incline benching 405 by 10-12, flat DB benching 150’s for 10-12 and (I’ll throw this one in here for Brick) stacking the pec deck for 10-12 is my genetic strength limit, and represents the largest, most powerful chest that I can achieve, then whatever gets me to that fastest is what I should be doing to get there. Right?

Now, if you look at a traditional split (and by the way I have absolutely nothing against traditional splits, I’ve used them in the past with good success) you’ll generally do 3-5 (depending on the individual) exercise for that body part. But how often are you going to be able to progress (from an increased weight on the bar standpoint) on all 3-5 of those exercises?

Are you going to be able to add 5 lbs to all 3-5 of those exercises every single week? Chances are no, you’re not (unless you are a beginner and haven’t built up much strength to begin with).

But, let’s say that you do 3 exercises, only you split them up so that you are only performing the same exercise once every 14 days (you’ll work the same muscle group 4 times in 14 days). Now do you think it’s reasonable that you’ll be able to add 5-10 lbs to every single exercise each and every time you do it? Much more reasonable IMO.

So, basically you are doing the same number of exercise, only you are progressing on all of them at a faster rate (from a strength perspective) than you would be able to if you did them all in the same workout. That’s the why Dante set up DC the way he did. Because this will (at least it has in the BB’ers who he’s done it with) result in the fastest possible strength progression, hence reaching one’s potential for strength/mass as quickly as possible.

Do, or believe what you want though. I’m not trying to convert anyone to DC or any other program. I just saw that some people didn’t seem to understand why DC was set up the way it is, and thought I’d try to clarify why I believe it is.

26

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
Popiapang wrote:
THis is more of a question for Professor X, but i guess i will ask everyone. When you train once a week do you feel like you work that muscle so hard on that one day that it takes a full 7 days to recover? or do you feel like maybe on the 5th you could work it again but do not for other reasons?

I ask because i used to train once ever 7 days and by the 4th or 5th day i really wanted to train it again, it just felt like it needed it. This lead me to try upper/lower splits and what not.

if you gotta wait that long to heal, you’re either not eating right, or not sleeping enough.

i like to think that stretching greatly improves recovery time[/quote]

I guess Dorian Yate’s was not eating and sleeping enough in order to become Olympia since his last training program of 6 years had him training each muscle group once every 7 days.

AGAIN … if you apply enough mechanical stress to a muscle, you will NEED 5 to 7 days until you hit it again.

27

Dorian to me is one of the better thinking bodybuilders(who share his thoughts publically) I’ve ever seen.

Brick is correct and it goes back to what I was talking about earlier… he NEEDED 5-6 days to recover from his sessions because of the weights he lifted and intensity he was able to generate. Anyone who has seen blood and guts knows what I’m talking about.

He didn’t start there… he did a 2 and 3 way split for his amateur and early professional career because he COULD STILL RECOVER and therefor he wanted to get in more successful growth(progression) phases. Eventually he became too strong to train body parts every 3-4 days and had to increase time between that to 5, then 6-7 as per his last routine.

A guy that is bench pressing 225xfailure and 1-3 other chest exercises does NOT need the same amount of recovery time as he will when he’s doing 455xfailure and those other chest exercises with comparable strength gains. No way no how in my opinion. Everyone has seen beginners who bench press 3x a week and are able to build up to decent strength levels. Put any advanced guy on this forum pressing more than 365x10 on a 3x a week bodybuilding style chest workout and he will get hurt or stop dead in his tracks progression wise pretty fast. His work capacity is just as high as when he was a beginner and could have gotten away with that but the weights lifted and ability to generate force(that only comes with experience) are exponentially higher.

Dorian’s training thought is exactly what I’m trying to get across here, not push DC on anyone.

28

[quote]ZeusNathan wrote:
Popiapang wrote:
THis is more of a question for Professor X, but i guess i will ask everyone. When you train once a week do you feel like you work that muscle so hard on that one day that it takes a full 7 days to recover? or do you feel like maybe on the 5th you could work it again but do not for other reasons?

I ask because i used to train once ever 7 days and by the 4th or 5th day i really wanted to train it again, it just felt like it needed it. This lead me to try upper/lower splits and what not.

if you gotta wait that long to heal, you’re either not eating right, or not sleeping enough.

i like to think that stretching greatly improves recovery time[/quote]

Wow. Not everyone is only using weights less than 300lbs on a bench press or still using only 3 plates a side for squats. There are people who use more weight who will need more time to recover.

29

This is correct. He started out on a TBT program for am month to learn how to lift.

Then he did an A-B split 3 times per week.

Then he did a 1x/5 days routine:
Day 1: Chest, arms
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: rest
Day 4: Back, shoulders
Day 5: rest

Then he did 1x/week.

His AB routine had 3 sets per exercise

1/5 days had 2 sets.

1/7 days had 1 set to failure.

30

This is correct. He started out on a TBT program for am month to learn how to lift.

Then he did an A-B split 3 times per week.

Then he did a 1x/5 days routine:
Day 1: Chest, arms
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: rest
Day 4: Back, shoulders
Day 5: rest

Then he did 1x/week.

His AB routine had 3 sets per exercise

1/5 days had 2 sets.

1/7 days had 1 set to failure.

31

This is correct. He started out on a TBT program for am month to learn how to lift.

Then he did an A-B split 3 times per week.

Then he did a 1x/5 days routine:
Day 1: Chest, arms
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: rest
Day 4: Back, shoulders
Day 5: rest

Then he did 1x/week.

His AB routine had 3 sets per exercise

1/5 days had 2 sets.

1/7 days had 1 set to failure.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Popiapang wrote:
THis is more of a question for Professor X, but i guess i will ask everyone. When you train once a week do you feel like you work that muscle so hard on that one day that it takes a full 7 days to recover? or do you feel like maybe on the 5th you could work it again but do not for other reasons?

I ask because i used to train once ever 7 days and by the 4th or 5th day i really wanted to train it again, it just felt like it needed it. This lead me to try upper/lower splits and what not.

if you gotta wait that long to heal, you’re either not eating right, or not sleeping enough.

i like to think that stretching greatly improves recovery time

Wow. Not everyone is only using weights less than 300lbs on a bench press or still using only 3 plates a side for squats. There are people who use more weight who will need more time to recover. [/quote]

Talking to that moron is pointless…

33

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
ZeusNathan wrote:
Popiapang wrote:
THis is more of a question for Professor X, but i guess i will ask everyone. When you train once a week do you feel like you work that muscle so hard on that one day that it takes a full 7 days to recover? or do you feel like maybe on the 5th you could work it again but do not for other reasons?

I ask because i used to train once ever 7 days and by the 4th or 5th day i really wanted to train it again, it just felt like it needed it. This lead me to try upper/lower splits and what not.

if you gotta wait that long to heal, you’re either not eating right, or not sleeping enough.

i like to think that stretching greatly improves recovery time

I guess Dorian Yate’s was not eating and sleeping enough in order to become Olympia since his last training program of 6 years had him training each muscle group once every 7 days.

AGAIN … if you apply enough mechanical stress to a muscle, you will NEED 5 to 7 days until you hit it again.
[/quote]

I have a problem with this. I have a feeling that the biggest strongest guys are in the gym ALOT more than they claim in these muscle magazines. Specially during the times when they gain the most weight.

Sometimes they’ll train chest on Monday, then because they ran into a friend or something they’ll go and train chest in the gym with their friend, or for a tv show.

34

One other thing for me is that there are large differences in recovery time for different body parts.

I can generally recover my upper body parts in closer to 3 to 4 days where things like my quads and hamstrings don’t even get sore until day 2 or 3.

Though I attribute some of the recovery time differences to things like jogging and hiking, I think there are muscle groups that can be trained more frequently than others.

35

I agree with what you are saying DD, my legs will stay sore longer than my back and chest. However some body parts will never get sore on me no matter what i do (Biceps)… does that mean i can train them every day tho? I dunno if being sore is a true indicator of anything other than that you worked out pretty hard. What do the rest of you think about this subject?

36

I do think just about everyone who grows gets sore from workouts but what I’m more concerned about is if I go to train a bodypart again can I do at least a little better. If my biceps aren’t sore 2 days later but I train them and do the same across the board… waste of time and effort in my opinion.

Recovery doesn’t necessarily mean “not sore” anymore to me… it means the ability to train progressively again.

37

Scott i used to be into DC and did it for about half of a year. I did get progressively stronger on my lifts. One thing that i noticed though was my work capacity was very low. I could do one set nasty as hell, but then could not get anywhere near to completing it again. When i trained with more volume my work capacity was higher. SO maybe there is more to progression than just increased weights moved (Although this is more convient). I am trying to pick the more advanced people’s brain here.

To explain my point further i used to do crew, and my legs were enormous. My legs could not fit in normal sized boxers i could only wear whitey tighties. But they were NOT strong. They could however do an incredible amount of work. I would say my max leg press (No squats) at the time was not much greater than any average person who worked out regularly, but my leg size was double theirs.

Similarly i know people who only do dips and chins, but for countless reps. They have thick and full muscles (Similar to gymnasts maybe but not a bodybuilder obviously). I doubt they can bench press 300 pounds, but they can do 100 straight dips or 50 straight chins.

38

Tyson claimed his build was built with high rep dips and chins and very little weights

39

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I usually train shoulders twice a week as I do any muscle group I am prioritizing over others. My shoulders are good now. I want them to be “holy shit” worthy…and that is going to take more work.
…[/quote]

Prof X,
Can you tell me what your shoulder workouts look like in a two times a week versus one time a week comparison? (i.e. excersize selection, rep ranges, whatever else may be important to consider)

Thanks!

40

[quote]Popiapang wrote:
SO maybe there is more to progression than just increased weights moved (Although this is more convient). I am trying to pick the more advanced people’s brain here.
[/quote]

There are obviously other ways to go about it. Here’s my point though… if you were never allowed to go above 135 bench squats and deads but could do infinite volume, drop sets, supersets etc how big would you get realistically? Of course if you go from benching 135 3x10 to 135 6x10 you can stimulate growth…you doubled the amount of work. But there is an upper limit to volume and sets and reps unless you want to do 3-5 hour workouts. Eventually it comes down to getting stronger if you want to get VERY big.

Point out the 2-5 biggest guys in your gym and I can almost guarantee you that they are using weights incredibly heavier than when they started. Bauer’s thread in the T-cell helps prove my point… he uses a ton of volume and trains bodyparts once a week but the fundamental fact is that he got A LOT stronger in the gym and has put on 100 lbs of solid mass after his beginner gains/growing up. Other people look at it as “you have to do a lot of work to get big” but I see it as “he doubled his strength on every movement… I don’t care how he did it”

[quote]
To explain my point further i used to do crew, and my legs were enormous. My legs could not fit in normal sized boxers i could only wear whitey tighties. But they were NOT strong. They could however do an incredible amount of work. I would say my max leg press (No squats) at the time was not much greater than any average person who worked out regularly, but my leg size was double theirs.[/quote]
Again though… you progressed in a significant manner with your training I would be willing to bet. Could you do your last years worth of training schedule when you just started out? Not likely… you forced your body to adapt to more and more stress, but eventually there is a point of diminishing returns because you are moving the same object the same amount of space with the same resistance. Unless that boat got a lot heavier you would stall out on size.

You can get nice size doing this(again progression in some fashion) but you don’t get extreme size like this unless your bodyweight is increasing consistently as well.