T Nation

Is My Test Low for a 22 Year Old?


#1

I look at the ranges for testosterone and see I am within range they put. But is that for a man my age for an old man? For a young man should I be higher? I had ASIH for a year and was never given gonadotropin or test injections, nothing, so have just recovered naturally. How do my scores look to you?
Free Testosterone = 90 pg/ml
Total Testosterone = 448 ng/dL
Percentage Free Test = 2.0%
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin = 29 nmol/L
Estradiol = 20.6 pg/mL
Estrone = 13.5 pg/mL
Estrogens Total Calculation = 34.1
FSH = 3.7 mIU/mL
LH = 5.0 mIU/mL


#2

yes, it is low. 700-900 is ideal I believe.

I would recommend searching out other causes before looking at HRT.

You should check your Vitamin D levels, ferritin levels, cortisol, Thyroid, Pregnenelone, DHEA-S, Prolactin, B12, Magnesium, etc.

I can guarantee (99% chance) that one of those will be below their ideal range.

If you find and fix one or more of those areas, you may be able to get a several hundred bump to your T levels.


#3

I had Anabolic Steroids Induced Hypogonadism for a year. Should I still seek out a cause?


#4

If you know this is the cause then this is the cause. Although controversial many guys had full hpta recovery and libido function with a short cycle of IGF1-LR3 @ 20-40mcg per day.

Otherwise it's the standard fare of treatments.


#5

You need to post lab ranges with your labs, especially FT.

Test for E2-estradiol, skip the other estrogen tests.

You need to test DHEA-S, as your low T might be from a lack of DHEA to feed DHEA-->T in your testes.

LH and FT are pulsatile and particular levels are not as useful as you might expect. FT labs when on TRT are very useful if injected and injections are frequent enough.

I don't know what ASIH means.

Look at diet, fish oil and other EFAs, iodine intake. You focus needs to be things that improve your metabolism, not just T levels. Everything in interconnected.


#6

Got any literature on that?
Perhaps some gonadotropin is in order too.


#7

IGF-1 fixes broken HPTA's? Sounds like bro-talk.


#8

Well all of them are within the appropriate levels.
I'll post the lab ranges when I get home.


#9

Beyond literature, I want to hear the theory behind why exogenous IGF-1 jumpstarts the HPTA...Haha.

KS---ASIH=anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism.

448 is low but not extremely low.

-How long ago was your cycle?
-What was your cycle and how long?
-What was your PCT?

You may never feel 100% again, even with TRT.

Pure-I disagree with "ideal". "Ideal" is whatever you feel best at.


#10

Good point. I agree.

700-900 seems the be the range that most people on HRT shoot for.


#11

Yeah. I agree. Many feel better at a higher level. I've always wondered if this is due to your androgen receptors being more likely to bind to your own body's production of testosterone. I.e., there is a hierarchy of selection. I'm not yet sold on the "testosterone is testosterone is testosterone" hypothesis. The only way to test this would be a study that compares gonadotropin use and testosterone cypionate use side by side. Double-blind with controls obviously and stratified by age. I may even want to throw in a group with low normal testosterone (300-500ng/dl). 3 month washout for all participants or perhaps do a perpetual study that uses new patients at a clinic. I'm talking TT, FT, E2, basic metabolic, PSA, etc. Then
I want a quantifiable/objective way to measure libido, mood, and other things, like a daily rubric. Should measure nocturnal erections with NPT equipment. Also, baseline IIEF scores in comparison to the end of study. Then I want complete compare and contrast on all parameters-age, type etc...who had most benefit from libido and at what age and what level and what type? Which levels of t caused strongest levels of erections and at what e2 levels? then as long as we have more than 400 participants, i'd be happy. That is a good study.

The best study ive seen was one from 1993 that measured sexual function in hypogonadal males.


#12

Jesus christ you must have driven your parents, school teachers, and priest crazy as a child. Nothing wrong with being inquisitive, but come on man!

Its my understanding that testosterone is testosterone is testosterone, and its just that simple. This is true from a chemical standpoint at least (synthetic T is chemically identical to the T produced in your body). I don't see how the body would discriminate between the two.

But I'm an engineer and not a chemist so I may just be talking out of my arse.


#13

damn right I'm inquisitive. There's still a lot of research to be done in this field. I do agree with you that chemically it's the same; however, look at Synthroid. Chemically the same but sometimes not absorbed or handled by patients (at least subjectively) as dessicated thyroid. And I'm an auditor, so it's my job to ask questions. :slightly_smiling:


#14

Testing things like this only goes so far. The reality is someone feels better or worse and if that does not fit with the statistics of a study... it does not matter. Exacting results of very expensive studies are really not going to improve things at all. You still need a doc who can treat the patient, not the lab work.

Research can only improve the depth of understanding of doctors who seek to understand. Meanwhile, doctors are and will remain the problem. Doctors who are ignorant will remain so even better research results are made available.

T is T, get over it.

With age and degradation of all aspects of cellular functioning, one can easily need higher amounts of FT to get a optimal response. TT levels are really not of great use as SHBG increases with age, but TT remains useful in terms of delivery effectiveness. This is why dosing needs to be personalized in many cases.


#15

You bring up a good point in that:

The point I shouldve made was this:

(In a nutshell): the sooner better research is available, the sooner future endocrinologists can learn more about this problem in med school and how to treat it most effectively. I think older doctors 15-20 years out of med school are definitely ignorant, or perhaps naive, but I think that younger doctors should understand this problem better than their predecessors and this is impossible without better research as to the most effective treatment options.

Perhaps T is T; maybe the problem is not in the actual T itself but rather that it doesn't mimic
the body's production identically.


#16

Every one has a biological set point it really depends on what other factors may be in played that need to be ruled out. You need to look at thyroid, adrenals, and other sex hormones if testoterone is at decent levels. Not every one needs 700-900 levels to feel good.

On TRT we do because our body is getting endogenous supply so we need alittle more to over compensate for lack of natural production. Your testosterone and TRT is not the same and this is recognized by the body. Dr needs to look at symptoms and rule out other variables before adminsitering TRT.

I have several patients that had low T but they where going through a peroid of prolong stress due to emotional issues, or surgeries. Giving these people TRT would have been shooting them self in the foot. You need a good DR to look at the cause Dr Overbeck and my self are 2 of the best in the business for getting people back to balance by looking at the root cause.

I even had a guy that had food allergies that were lowering his testosteorne. Removed allergies testosterone came right up.


#17

We can look at the bigger picture where many and multiple problems can be detected and treated where the patient then feels better. In some cases T was a factor but never tested for and T levels corrected as other problems are resolved. More of the 'everything is interconnected' theme.

We are so T focused here that in some cases, we have tunnel vision.

Just as we have doctors who are idiots when it comes to properly diagnosing and treating hypothyroidism, we problems with doctors dealing with these broader issues. When multiple things are out of balance, one's chances of finding appropriate medical care are greatly diminished.

On this site, we are all narrowly focused on testosterone. We are all collectively getting better at looking for comorbidities for guys presenting with their 'testosterone problems'. We can help with the T problems and the obvious cases of thyroid or adrenal problems. Getting more comprehensive in this format is really not realistic. Then we get down to what I will term comprehensive health care, which is largely unavailable. It would not take much of case load to saturate Hardasnails and his doctor, then most if the cases needing such services are hardly reduced at all. Many need services that are not available because of costs or other limitations of health care.