T Nation

Is It Too Late to Lower E2?


Bloods back.

T 3.54 ng/dl (1.31); last: 0.65
E2: 71.7 pg/ml; last: 44

While I feel slightly better on 125mg t-e / week, the dosing schedule is not optimal, nor is the desired T levels. That has to remain for the time being though.

I was unable to get anastrozole my previous visit as my LDL was off the charts at 263. It came back at 109 and I was able to get my hands on a script for 1mg/wk.

The pharmacy has already broken the tablets in half and individually packaged them. My plan is to take 0.5mg on the day of my shot - which happened to be today - and 3 days later. I will get bloods done in 4 more weeks. Is this a good plan to follow?

Though, I’m more concerned with my elevated E2 at this point. Will adex at this dosing help lower it or maintain it? Do I need letro to completely crash at first? I’ve heard problems with AAS users taking AIs when it’s too late and them not being effective anymore; though, I do understand they’re taking way more T.

This high E2 has to be a contributing factor to my forearm acne and possible shoulder impingement from even more fluid retention as I have been unable to lose weight (rather maintaining), despite getting “leaner” but feeling fuller.

My RBC was tested as well and I’m 556 (400-539), which is high. I’ve never donated blood, but it seems like I should… how much? The standard amount? 1 pint? Also, will blood donation lessen active T levels? If it matters, when should blood be taken (before/after shot).


Ok, that’s a lot of questions. I think your plan for the Adex is good. You’ll know for sure what adjustments to make after next labs. 1mg will definetly lower your E2. We just don’t know how much. Nobody would recommend crashing your E2. BB guys talk about being too late for E2’in terms of gyno and restart. No worries for you.

Yes you need to donate a pint of blood at least twice per year, I’d do it more often.

Ah, ok. I read an article on Evolutionary that it may be too late in regards to the water retention, something that I’m definitely experiencing. I mention shoulder impingement because it’s more recent; I’m having joint issues of last week and continuing tendon issues but E2 is high and not low. Hopefully an AI will assist with that.

I’ve been dieting for months but I’m keeping in the 82.5-84kg range as far as weight is concerned. When I feel my fat, it’s thick, but just above it is very thin… I think this is “bloat” but I am unsure of what bloat can be. From what I can tell, there’s definitely some added size around my ankles. I know that I’m definitely building new muscle as my natural levels have never – to the best of my knowledge – been above 290 and I am sitting at 2x that now and that could explain the weight maintenance (gain mass, lose fat), but not the other issues I’m having as far as size is concerned (my midsection exploded and I’ve never stored fat there, more in my thighs).

Is my RBC too high now where you think I should go in and give some blood immediately? Or is it something I can push off until I can find a Red Cross bus in my area again? There was one last week but I didn’t want to give blood without knowing the RBC…

Also, I didn’t know if my explanation on the dosing was understandable. It will be 0.5mg on Monday and 0.5mg on Thursday with the next dose followed on Monday, etc.

High E2 will cause bloating and lowering it will eliminate the bloat. The key to happiness is a good E2 level. I understood your adex dosing. It will bring down your E2, we just don’t know how much until you’ve been on it for a few weeks and retest. Then we can suggest dosing adjustments. You will begin to feel better pretty quickly on the adex. Monitor changes in libido, morning wood, energy, etc.

No need to donate blood today. Just do it sooner rather than later. Also take a baby aspirin daily if you have no contraindications.

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Just the immediate price for Aspirin on the shelf here… it’s $9 for about 10-15 tablets. I will try to get a 100 ct Bayer from an American base and commence taking that daily.

Thank you for your advice, I’ll come back with the new labs on September 12th (or if I have any changes sooner than that that require attention).

Wow! Baby aspirin in the states is pretty cheap. Where are you?


Because of that, most of my information on TRT is from T-Nation. My doctor is cool enough to play along as long as my blood stays within range and I think he sees that what I’m relaying to him about SERMs and AIs are correct as the numbers correlate test after test. Least, I think so, as he didn’t object to adex for as long as I got my cholesterol down, even when it’s not prescribed for T treatment here.

Hopefully my trial run can help others who live here later on in search of a TRT plan. I’ve only found 1 other forum from a person a couple years ago stating he was getting only 125mg every 4 weeks I believe. Ridiculous. I guess if you don’t ask, you don’t get. I’ll lay out all the steps I went through to get to the end point for foreigners living in Japan when it’s all said and done. Right now, it’s $50/mo out of pocket for Nolva and adex, $9 a shot, and $30 for full blood (T, E2, lipids, etc. – even LH and FSH even though they’re always going to come back at 0). Forgot to add, for those unaware, Japan has socialized medicine that actually works… I think this would come back far more expensive to the uninsured in America.

Arimadex won’t lower existing E, you would need Nolvadex for that. However, it should stop it from aromatizing quickly so your levels should drop fast.

Just wanted to add a positive update to this. I lost 8 pounds over the course of 3 days after my 1st dose of 0.5mg anastrozole and my intermittent chest pain, though never going into the “high blood pressure zone”, has all but subsided.

Hopefully I see all but continuing benefits from here on out until everything is dialed in.

I did have three questions though…

    1. I can’t seem to find whether an AI will increase testosterone for those on TRT, only a 50% increase for those who aren’t being treated. Will an AI increase testosterone for those on TRT as well as from what I understand, less testosterone is converted to estrogen?
    1. With my testosterone being 354 ng/dl after 125mg test-e/wk dosed in a single shot, would it be beneficial to add 25mg test-p to the mix for a total of 150mg testosterone? I don’t know whether adding a faster ester such as prop to the mix would slow down the metabolism of the test-e, thus boosting overall levels much more (if that makes sense).


  • If the above doesn’t make sense to do, as I can’t split shots, would just adding a dose of 25mg methyltestosterone for 1-3 days at the end of the week be better to keep levels both higher and more stable (for as long as my liver could support that)?

As we’ve mentioned before, when doing injections once per week, lab results are skewed because of timing. Very tough to make adjustments in protocol because your T and E2 will be pretty different on day 1 after the shot as compared to the day of the next shot. So to answer your questions, yes the AI will cause an increase in FT because less of your TT will be aromatized. But you can’t keep increasing the adex in hopes of raising FT because you’ll crash your E2. No, I would not increase your T dose. You really need to stay at that dose and figure out how to get two injections per week. Absolutely no on the oral T. Terrible for your liver over a long period of time.

Hey, thanks for the input.

Unfortunately, 2 or more shots are out of the question due to the legalities of syringes in Japan for the time being. I’m unsure if the doctor is going to “prescribe” those as well for my treatment at this time.

I will see how my next blood work is in approximately 3 weeks to check if the adex had a positive effect on those numbers as well. When they were first checked, I was only on the shots. Now, I am on adex (which I don’t want intend on suppressing E2 completely as you mentioned) and 20mg of Nolvadex per day (which I forgot to ask: does that also play a role in increasing FT?).

You don’t suggest adding 25mg test prop to 125mg test e if it’s not in range?

I was under the impression that taking an oral for 1-3 days with 4 days off would be alright; it’s only when they’re used for prolonged periods. But, I’ll keep that in mind as this is a lifetime treatment.

On what day are you having labs done?

TRT is for life. No way would I take an oral T for life.

125mg of T is a good dose for TRT. I can’t stress enough, you can’t know what your T levels are when injecting once per week. It’ll start out high and drop as the week goes on. So results are based on lab timing.

Right before my next shot (the 7th day).

Typical. So the lab values represent the lowest levels. Your T would be much higher on day one. Unless you change protocol, you are going to be stuck guessing and adjusting trial and error style.

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Anastrozole is a competitive drug to T, so needs to balance to T levels. That is impossible with weekly injections as T changes too much. Try to get those syringes. You can inject with #29, 1/2"-12mm, 0.5ml [50iu] insulin syringes and inject twice a week, SC or IM.

If you inject twice a week, try to do labs half way between injections always so changes to lab results are not artifacts from changed lab timing.

See stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

I’ve been on this forum for months and this is the first I’ve read this:[quote=“blshaw, post:8, topic:220523, full:true”]
Arimadex won’t lower existing E, you would need Nolvadex for that. However, it should stop it from aromatizing quickly so your levels should drop fast.

I had high E2 before starting TRT and my Uro is giving me Arimadex. It’s an AI. Novadex is a SERM. I’ve read @KSman’s info that Novadex doesn’t have some side effects compared to Clomid, is that what you ment?

Arimadex prevents estrogen from forming in the first place. Nolvadex is used often times by people on cycles to combat estrogen problems that have formed, especially gyno. It binds to the estrogen receptors in place of the estrogen. Regardless, your are fine sticking with your Arimadex.

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Would there be a different protocol with adex for weekly injections?

Right now, 0.5mg every Monday and Thursday. I don’t have any labs done with this dose yet, just asking in case this will crash E2.

That’s a standard kind of starting regimen. Keep with it and you can test a 6 weeks.