T Nation

is it time to start?

I have been lifting 2 1/2 years in that time I have put on 30 lbs. of lean body mass. I started off really thin, I was 6’ 3" 155 lbs when I started. Currently I am at 185 lbs and about 9% or 10% bodyfat. My goal is to gain another 10 to 20 lbs of lbm. Before I started lifting I had taken martial arts for 5 years. One of the biggest pieces of criticism I recieved, was to put on weight.

The questions I have are this. I posted a cycle a couple of months a go, and the general consenus was I needed to gain more weight before starting a cycle. Since then I have gained another 10lbs. My concern is newbies gain an average of 15 lbs of lbm in the first few months of training and more experienced lifters will gain that in a year if they are lucky. As I am nearing that threshold is now a good time to start a cycle. Ideally want to start taking martial arts again in a couple of months, and I would like to make the 200 lbs before I start.

thanks for your help

ps If there is interest I can post the cycle as well as a sample food log.

Also I am 26 years old.

you need to tell us:
your age, how long training?


No I don’t think it’s time to start. Your theory about newbies putting on an average of 15 lbs per year proves ONE thing… you need more years under your belt. Wouldn’t ONE MORE year of training make you reach your 200 lb goal? I think you’re looking for a quick fix.

I was once in your position… 6’1" and 147 lbs. I didn’t start “using” until I was 210 lbs or so, and it took me LONGER than 2.5 years of training. Don’t rush it, your goals will be much more rewarding if you take your time and do it right. Good luck.

to be on the safe side, perhaps a little more training would be best.

i’m not flaming, but 2 years isn’t alot. i believe you could still get bigger natural.


Donniedarko, I’m 6’3" and 230 lbs. I wasn’t as lean as I am now, but I started juicing when I was ~205lbs. Even still, a lot of guys would argue that even still I started juicing too soon. I don’t necessarily agree with that, but I would advise you to at least wait until you get up to the 200lb mark as well.

It would probably take you about a year to get there, and if you’re still lifting heavy and are dedicated after gaining that muscle then more power to you!

But 185lbs is LIGHT for a guy who’s 6’3". With that height comes a lot of growth potential, you just have to work on slapping mass onto your long limbs and torso. Naturally you could gain at least a good 20-30lbs over a few years, I’m sure.

I found I got large gains in muscle when I switched from working legs 1x per week to doing 1x quad and 1x hip dominant day per week. You should be able to gain 15lbs quite quickly if you focus on money exercises like deadlifts…

My advice is WAIT to gear up… Until you’ve exhausted more of your natural growth potential.

I have been concentrating on compound exercises (deadlifts, squats, bench). I work out 4 times a week. 2 upper 2 lower. I do not do any cardio and my bodyfat stays low.

I would like to start taking martial arts again soon which is why I am looking for the “quick” fix. I only plan on doing one or two cycles to quickly hit the 200lbs mark then from their focus the lifting to assist the martial arts training. I do not want to get much over 200lbs fearing it may take away from my training for martial arts.

Also a concern is when I start training in martial arts again my energy expenditure will increase greatly and I do not think I can 6000 cal to continue growing.

Thank you for your responses, still looking for more advice.

if you havent been using the OTC supps then start there. its not juice but alot of the stuff does have its place at the table. i started years and years ago with simply using creatine as instructed. and it worked. just like amino supps, and protein shakes and the various forms of pro-hormones. use those things to there fullest before you cross over bro. you’ll thank us later.

I don’t think you have any business doing them yet but that’s just my opinion.

Are you going to follow the advice of th forum or are you going to go for it anyways. I understand your reasons for wanting to start. Years ago I too started using under 200lbs, and I wish I hadn’t. Once you learn a bit more about diet and how to be truly disciplined you’ll notice that getting to 200lbs might not be that difficult. If you are going to go for it anyways, please understand that it will still require the same kind of commitment and dedication. Increase your protein intake and try to train and eat better. Drago was on the money with his recommendations; creatine, protein, etc can get you there. You seem to gain easily, so don’t be impatient…just wait a little longer.

I have been using protien consistently throughout my training, and have used creatine in the past. I have not made a decision yet on taking the plunge. I understand the need for hard work. Between martial arts and weight lifting, I have been working out for just under 8 years. I am just trying to find a way to quickly gain that last 10 - 20 lbs so I can start with the martial arts training full time and lifting part time.

Any suggestions for a good prohormone wold be appreciated. I have tried a few different supplements in the past with minimal success from them.

I am also looking for constructive arguments against taking steroids at this point, not just “I wouldn’t do it.” Is it a psychological reason or physiological one? From the research, I have only seen psychological reasons not too.

I will also discuss this over pm if it makes anyone more comfortable. But I am still looking for info. I have been reading past posts and articles for almost a year and have not been able to find the answers to these questions.

I’m 19 years old and I plan on waiting a while to take steroids; however, if I was your age, with your stats, I would take them now. What is there to wait for?

Everyone is going to tell you that you can put on a lot more weight naturally, which is very true. But if you intend to take them sooner or later, then what is there to wait for? If you’re unsure if you want to take them or not, then wait it out and see if you can reach your goals naturally. But I do not see a reason to delay it if you are certain you will take steroids eventually.

Generally dosages will have to increase over time to provide similar results.
This is one reason to try and wait as long as possible.
Higher dosages=Higher risk of side effects.
Another reason is the need to learn how to train and eat.
Going from 160-185 is very different from going past 200lbs naturally.
One thing is to think you know how to train, the only real way of learning how to grow is putting in the time/effort.
Physological reason not to?
If you don’t know how to eat/train you will loose everything once you come off.

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way. But listen to the advice of the veterans on this board.
Their experience is invaluable.

It seems your mind is already set. If so, why are you coming here and asking for advice?

I have not yet made a decision one way or the other. I am looking advice to fill in the missing pieces of information that you do not get from reading about half lifes, site injections, classes, etc. I am looking for the info only experience can bring. As of right now I do not know if ever want to weigh more than 200 - 215 lbs. I feel it would start to hinder my martial arts. This means I am not to worried about stunting my growth potential. However losing everything I did gain is a concern.

Also any suggestions about pro hormones would be helpful as Mag-10 has been discontinued, which other ones work?


I believe that Archaic has hit right on the nose when he said that you should wait until you hit the 200lb. mark before engaging in AAS useage. The money lifts are also great advice.
I would not worry too much about the extra weight hindering your martial arts skills. Currently, I am at 228, pretty damn lean and I have been practicing the Martial Arts for 10 years. I feel that if you incorporate a day or two a week to plyometrics, stability ball training protocols and add dynamic flexibility to your current weight training regimine that you will be fine. It works for me and other athletes that I train DD. When you get into the 200’s talk about taking AAS to enhance your physique. As far prohormones are concerned I would not take them. They are a crude version of the real thing. Save your money.
If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Take care and be well-

The Scorp