From the article I’ve posted. 16 were awarded refugee status in 2016. From what I’ve seen in Poland, most of the low paying jobs are taken by Ukrainians, even in smaller towns.
Urbanization it’s a worldwide trend, it’s only more visible to the naked eye in smaller nation states. Hungary has fared the worst. Around a third of Hungarians live in Budapest and the economic activity is so concentrated that it’s almost impossible to find a white collar job outside of it.
Just to get your opinion on this, what do you see as a problem with the right wing in Poland? I only know bits and pieces of what is going on there, I don’t see why Poland should be forced to take a bunch of refugees but the fact that there are neo-Nazi groups is definitely something to be concerned about. Also the supposed “attack on democracy” has to do with getting rid of communist elements within the system, which seems reasonable to me.
Migrants, not refugees. Wording is important in terms of rights and obligations and all those arriving in Europe are migrants. And I agree, Poland (or any other country) for that matter shouldn’t be forced to take them but it’s not an excuse for pushing fascist 1930s politics.
Almost 30 years have passed since the fall of communism and the alleged communist bogeyman is supposedly incredibly resilient. It’s just a bullshit excuse to push their hare brained agenda, assuming that people won’t care while the economy is doing good. And they’re right, like everywhere else, people don’t care when the economy is good.
But ironically the supposed nationalist right wingers are pushing the country towards (national) socialism, with dramatically increased social spending, endangering three decades of interrupted growth.
And another danger is flirting with extreme right wingers and neo-Nazis - once you release the genie from the bottle and allow the into the mainstream, who knows what can happen.
I was visiting my wife’s family in Warsaw when a distraught elderly neighbor appeared and begged us not to go the city center that evening - she heard on the radio that “gays, Jews and environmental protection activists will attempt to overthrow the government that night”. I laughed it off but having since added many of my wife’s relatives on Facebook and seen what they’re posting…I can only say holy crap.
Unless they encourage the group nativists prefer to actually… make babies. The Europeans are importing couples that still have more than 2.1 kids to ensure growth. Problem is they have very different values than their host countries.
That could be a thread on it’s own really. Why do the countries with the best standard of living and most advanced open societies, have the fewest kids? On a simplistic level more resources should equal more babies. Maybe it’s because the west doesn’t treat women like breeding livestock, any more.
I read something a couple weeks ago about a particular government agency where they replaced all the employees because they had all been trained in the USSR. Also the left wing in Poland isn’t too far off from communism it seems. Last week the were boycotting Independence day and the liberal mayor of Warsaw banned the usual march, but that was overruled by the federal government. The funny thing is that Independence Day was banned under the communist government and now the Polish liberals are trying to do the same thing, regardless of what excuse they present it really does give the impression that they are in fact communists.
Yeah, that’s fucked up, the Nazis didn’t have any nice plans for Poland so as far as I am concerned any Polish Nazis are traitors and should be hanged. At the very least. But it doesn’t seem that the neo-Nazis are mainstream at all from what I understand, no more than the KKK is mainstream in the US.
There was a recent incident where a reporter went undercover and organized some kind of neo-Nazi party, bought a whole bunch of vodka and Nazi flags and incited the people to show off their delusional, alcohol-fueled Nazism, all captured on video. I’m not trying to make excuses for the neo-Nazis, but if anything what the reporter is doing is irresponsible and is trying to make a story out of nothing.
Speaking of Nazis in eastern Europe, look at what’s going on in Ukraine - this is not some bullshit conspiracy theory, this is the Israeli mainstream news:
Rights Groups Demand Israel Stop Arming neo-Nazis in Ukraine
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/rights-groups-demand-israel-stop-arming-neo-nazis-in-the-ukraine-1.6248727
Because they get too comfortable and become stupid, or so it seems. In many countries you aren’t guaranteed to eat every day and people still want big families, partly because the kids can help you and when you get old you will need someone to take care of you. People in “developed” countries are too busy staring at their smartphones and buying stuff they don’t need to do some of the most basic things in life.
Also, part of the problem is that the way the system is set up in most western countries it makes life more difficult when you have kids. At my work there are a few African women with 5+ kids, a couple of them were telling me that they couldn’t imagine having 5 kids here in Canada because there are too many expenses and too much nonsense. The price for a regular daycare for one kid is at least $50 per day, 5 kids = $250. In other countries you can leave your kids with the neighbors or hire someone for real cheap if you have a half-decent job or business. Over here if you want to have more than 2 or 3 kids you either have to be rich or stop working altogether and get welfare, there is no middle ground.
On top of that with the daycare issue, you are lucky if you can find a daycare that is open past 5pm. “Regular” working hours are 9 to 5, so basically both parents can’t easily work and have kids. You can find a job that starts earlier but the daycares usually open at 7:30-8am so that still doesn’t give you much time when you have to go from home to daycare to work and back. Basically, the system is fucked up.
I think it’s more that societies don’t really care about having a dominating majority through breeding anymore.
Kids are damn expensive. Why wouldn’t affluent people have 1 or less in order to springboard their personal finances and lifestyles?
Here’s my take on the migration issue in Europe:
Basically, there are some countries that are largely responsible for the problems in Africa and the Middle East, such as France, the UK, and Germany. Those countries colonized many places and caused a bunch of shit, and still continue to interfere in things there (look at Libya). I didn’t hear of any major protest in any European country against colonization and the continued draining of resources from their colonies, so for people there who don’t want hordes of migrants coming on boats it’s a case of “you reap what you sow”.
Poland on the other hand didn’t colonize anything. Apparently they tried to start a colony on the island of Tobago back in the 1600s but it didn’t work out, aside from that Poland never conquered anything outside of Europe. Why should Poland be held responsible for the current problems around the world? There are some clowns out there saying that all white people are responsible for the transatlantic slave trade. My family actually did own slaves in Poland at one time, but they were all white people. As for the anti-Muslim sentiment in Poland, aside from all the recent terrorist attacks in Europe, Poland also did fight a war against the Ottoman empire. Would you voluntarily let your enemies into your country after fighting a war against them? That would be stupid. I don’t have a problem with Muslims personally, but I can see why Poland has a problem with Muslims.
Because then they end up in a nursing home with nobody visiting them and the nursing staff leave them sitting in a shitty diaper. I work in a nursing home (cooking, thankfully), I see what goes on. There are some gay guys who shit their pants at every meal too. That doesn’t sound like a legitimate “lifestyle choice” to me.
Why in God’s name would an affluent person who only had 1 kid not be financially sound enough to avoid those types of retirement homes?
Also, having kids for the purpose of them taking care if you one day is a bad joke. It’s exclusively used by useless human beings.
Edit: even if it made perfect sense, I’ll take 40 years of a better life over 5 years in a slightly dirtier diaper.
It’s more complex. The mayor of Warsaw banned the far right march and then the government intervened and announced an “official” march preceding the right wingers. The lines were blurred as only a small detachment of police officers was standing between the official march and the right wingers. Another example of pandering to extreme elements.
Polish right-wing politics is very Trumpian is a sense that they’re turning literally everything into an ideological us vs. them confrontation. You’re against illegal logging in a national park? You obviously work for Soros and the globalists. You want to preserve a historical monument from being transformed into a shopping mall? You’re practically advocating resettlement of Muslims into Poland.
Neo Nazis are still a small minority in Poland but it’s the pandering and dog whistling that’s dangerous.
It’s a more complex picture. Azov are pretty much neo-Nazis but there’s also an all Jewish volunteer brigade in the Ukrainian Army and the current PM Groysman is Jewish. All extreme right wing and neo-Nazi parties combined in Ukraine failed to win more that one percent of votes in the last election.
There’s a long history of Muslims in Poland (Lipka Tatars) but this recent migratory wave is simply a push to forcibly change the ethnic/religious makeup of many European countries. If the host nation wants or needs migrants that’s great. But forcing a country to accept migrants without any underlying economic or social rationale is extremely dangerous.
That’s why it’s a skewed bell curve. Both poor and extremely rich people have a lot of kids. Just look at Trump and his progeny. Three of his children have three or more kids. But the number are skewed towards the poor and it’s the middle classed that are producing less kids.
If you require a lot of care then living in a nice retirement home can easily cost $4000+ per month. Nursing homes are not the same thing as a retirement home, it’s not as fancy and is regulated by the government, and it’s for people who need a lot of attention. They pay the employees better, but there are long waiting lists for residents and one home is usually not that much better than the other. The government recently cut funding too, so the standard of care is lower than before and things are not so great.
Who do you consider not to be useless?
I hate to break it to you but that reasoning is used by the majority of human beings. India, Pakistan, all of subsaharan Africa… Your children are your retirement plan.
It’s you in the developed world that’s the outlier.
Seems to me that’d be better for the affluent guy who had 1 kid instead of 3 and gets an extra 40 years of tons more money to save up.
Isn’t the line of conversation about first world countries? Poland, America, et al?
Who else is going to stop by the nursing home and make sure they’re changing your diaper? Definitely not government bureaucrats .
Could you imagine reading the bureaucratic minutiae of the proper application, use limits, and disposal of a poopy diaper?
It would break your fucking brain.
WTF. Is it really being suggested that you have lots of kids because of the fucking nursing home?
Fuck having lots of kids. It’s only idiots now who don’t believe or don’t know how contraceptives work who are having litters of children. Sadly the poorest dipshits are having the most kids.
I come from a family of 7 though so what the hell do I know.
There used to be some great reasons for it. If you have 14 kids and maybe 1 or 2 die at birth or infancy then you still have 12 to go work in the mines or mills. Then one or two get killed and you still have 10 to earn money, build each other houses, etc.
It worked pretty good for my grand parents.
Yep.
In many places around the World; and in the United States especially when it was mostly agricultural; kids were your “retirement” or “safety net” as you got older and retired.
Someone would be there to either run the farm; or simply take care of you when you couldn’t take care of yourself.
And don’t forget…sex has always been sex…it can take someone away from an otherwise miserable Life for a short period of time.
You guys sound out of touch with reality. Most people on the planet actually want to have kids.