T Nation

Is Democracy Failing?


#1

Democracies all around the world are failing. As Governments scramble to deal with soaring deficits, pending inflation, and financial sector collapse, democracies descend into a whirlwind of bi/tri-partisan rhetoric, while legislation comes to a standstill. Societies begin to divide between prominent ideologies of liberalism and conservatism.

You hear alot of people proposing "capitalism" and "socialism" as alternatives, but is it the over-arching system of Democracy that is failing us? Are the current global problems a herald of the capitalist/democracy experiment failing in its infancy? Any thoughts?


#2

Democracy has not been implemented. On the contrary, it is ONLY democracy that will put an end to the contradictions and antagonisms of the present capitalist system. What you are witnessing is the conflict between the interests of the mass of the people and the continued accumulation on the part of the capitalist class.


#3


#4

Dictatorships are failing as well, yet you don't hear much about their problems since the media is squashed. This is not a problem based on democracy failing.


#5

(@Dustin)

I realize my message might have been a little difficult for you, however, I couldn't find any lolcat pictures that summed it up well enough. Sorry.


#6

Translator note for the unwary . . he means Social Democracy (ie pure socialism) has never been tried - and any attempt on your part to demonstrate that socialist states fail, he will blmae on some other aspect of that national expirement rather than on the fallacious socialist.

Additional translator notes for the non-socialist - his use of the terms "mass of the people" and "capitalist class" are also socialist-speak.

The socialist will cleverly try to insist that a social democracy can right the ills of capitalism - all the while knowing that it ha sbeen the infusion of socialist doctrine into the bloodstream of capitalism that has caused the present financial crisis.


#7

Haha! Thanks for once again confirming the fact that you are utterly lost.

Hmmm...where have I heard this logic before? Blaming the woes of capitalist Europe and America on socialism? Ahhh, if only I too were stupid enough to not feel the need to apply thought or standards of rigor to my own statements.

Pure fantasy. I would love for you to explain to me how socialism accomplished this surprise victory, which would be by far the biggest sneak-attack in history. You've had the entire western world (and much of the rest of the world) agreeing that free-market capitalism is the best way to go, and we've seen regulations accordingly loosened, and yet it still has utterly failed.

If I'm right, you're wrong. If you're right, it doesn't exactly instill confidence in me that the capitalist class could have literally the whole world behind them and still drop the ball so badly.


#8

And here is where you will lose the battle, my little socialist, - NAME the EXACT REGUALTION that was LOOSENED that resulted in this current state? If what you say it true, this should be an absolute no-brainer.

You can even choose to do so nationally (US) or globally - you pick . . .

and the clock starts now . . .


#9

Guys this wasn't my intention with this thread. I wanted to start a discussion on whether democracies are inherently flawed, and discuss ideas in which to improve western democracies in all countries regardless of location on the political spectrum. Any thoughts?


#10

Sorry PTDave - I did not mean to hijack your thread. The only inherent flaw I see in democracy is its openess. The same freedoms that make us vulnerable to terrorism attack also make us vulnerable to ideologies that corrupt and destroy the institutions and values of a democracy.

Western democracies need two things - an acceptance of the personal responsibilites of being a citizen of a democratic nation, and an education system that actually teaches the successive generations the values and ideals of western civilization along with the knowledge , skills and ability to think for one's self.

I also do not believe that citizenship should be an right one is simply given for being born to a citizen. I think every person who reaches the age of majority should have to pass a citizenship knowledge test and choose to sign citizenship papers to actually be counted as a voting citizen.

I do not believe that people who live off of the public dole should be allowed to vote and people who break the law (including "white collar" crime, but excluding minor crimes) should not be able to vote either.

I believe all politicians should have to pass a vote of confidence every year - regardless of term of service

I believe all homes sold should be sold with a minimum of 2 acres of land (true land ownership)

well, that's enough of my thoughts - let's hear what some others have to say


#11

When politicians began to legally bribe sectors of the public with other peoples' money, Democracy was doomed. That's all entitlements are, bribery. It's worse than the absence of Democracy, in my opinion.


#12

Those are some great ideas, especially the knowledge test as a part of citizenship. I was just curious about why you thought the 2 acres should be minimum? Can't imagine the sprawl if suburbs had 2.0 acre properties lol


#13

Using that logic, couldn't the same be said for tax cuts?


#14

two acres allows for home gardening - obviously not a farm, but still adequate for the average family - and this would then create more green space and lessen the urban hot zones


#15

oh - almost forgot - most important reform for western democracies - NONE OF THE ABOVE on ALL ballots!!!


#16

Right now the whole world is failing , there are some counties doing better than others but it is a global recession


#17

Yes, they are flawed, just like all state governments that is why I am Anarcho-Capitalist.


#18

Nope. A tax cut is the act of leaving the people more of THEIR OWN money.


#19

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only
exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from
the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the
candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the
result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always
followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest
civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this
sequence: "From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great
courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance
to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From
dependence back into bondage."

~Alexander Fraser Tytler (later Lord Alexander Fraser Woodhouslee), in "The
Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic," published 1776.


#20

I did not read the thread, but in my defense I have read the Federalist papers.

We are a Democratic REPUBLIC

I don't understand why people are so enamored with the term Democracy.

I don't know if this relates to the thread in any meaningful way.