[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Vegita wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
It’s truly sad when following the constitution is considered the “lunatic Fringe”. Don’t you see what the system has done to you? My ideas are not far fetched or out of reach. I need people like you, no we the people need people like you, who have the ability to get it, to do more than sit on the sidelines and accept the status quo. I hate to keep bringing him up, but Ron Paul has not been corrupted by power, he got his nickname Dr. No, for exactly that reason, it is not far fetched to think that there are people out there who hold thier own morals, and thier oath of office to be thier defining characteristics. We truly are defeated if people like yourself continue to have apathy towards a corrupt system. The founders set this sytem up but they envisioned a place where people understood that they could not sit on the sidelines. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. There is no sitting this out, if you don’t act, then you defacto vote for the power elite to do whatever they see fit. We have to hold our representative government accountable, and that means being knowledgable enough about the system of government (the constitution is the blueprint) to reward them for being good politicians, or to fire them if they are not good politicians.
I’m not doubting what you’re saying. But like I said, it sounds nice but will never happen.
What you are asking people to do is to hold power and not abuse it. That’s what you’re saying. What I am telling you is that there is no way in hell that this will ever happen.
I want you to find one society where the people who lead are truly concerned only with the welfare of those under them. The only ones that I can think of are some tribes of Native Americans and possibly the peoples that live with a village or clan based philosophy (which is about as close to Marxism as you’re going to find).
Otherwise, any modern society is corrupted. Some times are worse than others, and purging fires are to be expected (and do happen), but the great majority of the time those in power will always be subject to persuasion by a multitude of ways.
It’s the way people are. No vote or revolution is going to change the way people are wired. Greed and self-preservation are always going to be motivating factors. Sometimes they’ll be used for good, sometimes bad. But to make it so black and white like you are is, well, ignorant and naive.
This is simple stuff, yet the system has brainwashed people into being comfortable and thinking they can do nothing but accept things the way they are. Also you bring age into the equation now? when you were 18 you used to think like I did? Is that supposed to mean my way of thinking is somehow only held by young and nieve people? I’m 29, and have been a regular follower of politics since I was 18. It seems that it is possible to evolve from the old views I held, that of the Neo-Cons, or new conservatives, to that of the Paloe-Cons, or old school conservatives. I’m not sure why you de-volved, from a position of understanding to one of sticking your head in the sand, but it surley is dissapointing.
V
I’m actually wondering how you forgot what people are like.
I brought age into it because at 18, you don’t know so much about how the world works. You don’t understand the basics of how countries are formed, how they’re run, how the ladder works from local to state to Federal government, and how special interests can affect all of those. You don’t realize the way history flows, and you’re not as quick to understand the basic tenets of humanity.
What it comes down to is that people will always do what saves their own skin. If that means killing their own cousin to save their life (like the Mafia), if that means throwing someone under the bus for a crime (Congress style), if that means narcing out the guy that sold you the drugs like a street snitch, people will always save their own skins first, and worry about you later.
People are oppurtunistic and self-preserving. They will kick you when you’re down, and turn on you in a second. This world is a hard one. Is there a place for idealists? Yes. But will you ever have a world, or a government that is run by them? No.
Wow you are thick. I understand that power and money corrupt. You are missing one important point. We as the people have the ultimate power. If we start firing these people left and right, the rest will do OUR bidding, not that of the special interests, because they will be selfish and need to look out for thier own skin. I am saying we can use the exact things you view as wrong with the system to our advantage, and I think the founders knew this would be the eventuality of it. A first grader can see a problem and then come to a rational conclusion on how to correct that problem. You are acting like their is no solution. There is a solution, use the power we have. Fire congress, vote in all new people, they have 2 years to not fuck up. Anyone that does, someone else gets thier spot. People will be running left and right for these positions because they know that all they have to do to stay in the nice position is to follow the constitution. The world you live in must truly suck, I could not imagine living in a place where I felt utterly helpless and hopeless.
V
I think shooting politicians would be more efficient than voting them out.
People are too easily swayed by government’s slight of hand. Like when Rome entertained people with gladiators rather than fixing problems.
People vote for the guy who’s tax plan is best for their bracket, plane and simple, regardless of right or wrong.
A Politician from Nevada will get re-elected if he gets that state federal funds, even if he screws Arizona in doing so.
edit: The Nevada guys’ constituents are in Nevada, but helps make national decisions. I feel it’s one of the flaws of our federal government. National politicians aren’t held accountable to a national audience.[/quote]
This is because of pork barrel spending, National lawmakers should not have the power to effect anything in the states. If one state gets something from the federal government, then all states should get it. There should be no special projects or federal funding for projects, it’s unconstitutional and would eliminate a person getting re-elected based on the prok they bring home. Also It is obvious that an awakening needs to happen before my ideas will come to fruition, after there is an awakening, it will be up to the people to make it part of the education system that the mistakes of the past will repeat if not avoided. So kids will be taught in school, that the only way to keep corrupt people in check is to know the constituition, and hold our lawmakers and elected officials to following it above all else.
V