The more I read here about guys trying to lose all the fat post-bulking cycle the more I have no interest in this method of bodybuilding. Same with cutting cycles. The side effects and mood swings just don’t seem to be worth the effort.
What is wrong with running a cycle/blast and just eating right in the first place. Is it really that hard?
Is it bodybuilders or power lifter that need all those fat producing calories?
Junk food should really only be a tool if you are struggling to lean gain. Sometimes I have to throw in a bit of extra junk calories to get the scale to budge in the right direction. I’ll throw in pizza once a week, or sip on some Gatorade. But if you’re eating a lot of red meat and rice, you shouldn’t need too many more calories to hit the numbers. Mind you, this is only during a cycle with something like anadrol that already suppresses my appetite. Otherwise, I have no problem gaining weight on clean food.
I dont believe in cycles being “bulking” or “cutting”. There are bloating ones and not bloating ones, thats it. You can cut on deca and dbol and you can gain muscle on t-prop and tren and masteron.
I believe there are bulking calories and cutting calories tho.
Cant speak about excuse to eat pizza, because i eat pizza every morning along with blended nuts, chocolate and protein in almond milk, because if i eat clean, i can get maximum of 3000kcal per day which for me means being in a massive defficit. Since i decided to go 280lbs, i just swallow food and try not to taste it, because im sick all the time. I wouldnt need excuse to eat Pizza, i would need and excuse to fast for 24 hours and feel happy.
In my experience and what I’ve heard from bodybuilders, it just isn’t effective for building muscle.
Building muscle is faster in a good surplus. Building muscle is also difficult and losing fat is easy.
I’m gonna try the lean gains approach in the upcoming winter once again and we’ll see how that goes. Last bulk in gained around 4-5 kg of muscle while gaining 14 kg, which means very inefficient. I’d rather have at least 50% of gained weight be muscle.
My reasoning of doing bulking calories is this -
Lets say you stimulate growth worth of 10 units. So you need to eat calories worth of 10 units in order to recover and grow. But you have NO IDEA how much you spend in a day. So you eat approx 10 units of calories, but one day you have a bit more intense sex, and you carried heavier grocery bag, and you spent not 10, but 11 units of calories, but you ate your 10, so you GAINED muscle worth of 9, since you spent 1 extra in a day, so there was less for gaining muscle left. So now you under-recovered. Doing this for 6 months, you might actually not recover and grow for 3-4 months of those.
So basically - YOU DONT KNOW how much you need each day, so you eat enough to gain fat, because if you gain fat, you have EXTRA calories, which means you recover and grow to your full potential.
If you dont gain fat, maybe you are exactly on the line, or maybe - below and you are spinning your wheels.
Also, after gaining muscle and fat, losing fat is much easier.
Also, there is more strenght when you are a bit more chubby so you can train more intense.
Going right on the fine line is risky, slow, and most days even unproductive because if you miss a bit, you dont gain shit that day.
I rather grow to my full potential and then just lose the fat in 1 month, than spin my wheels for 6 months wondering if i even gain something.
Yes, that’s exactly what I think about it, but I wasn’t in the mood tipping all of that on my phone.
Basically gaining fat is the insurance that you are in a surplus.
During my next bulk I’ll keep better track of my waist line instead of just the scale. The scale is not a good helper during a bulk.
Yeah well do not worry it’s the same for us natties. Except that I gained around 10 kgs of fat and water last time and probably 1-2 kgs of muscle 
I tried 3-4 times the bulk and every time it was the same thing, and losing the fat took effort and in the end you barely look the same so I don’t fret much over nutrition now, and gain slowly 0,5-1,5kgs of muscle per year…
I think I’m still gonna try one more time this winter, albeit in a more controlled fashion, but for the purpose of strength rather than muscle
Yes it is. Perhaps you don’t realize it on this forum full of passionate and hardcore people, but as a coach, I can tell you that 90% of people are piss poor weak to quote @dagill2 , especially mentally.
Honestly most people that take gear shouldn’t. They do for the wrong reasons, as a “magic pill” or a short cut. Most of them are completely delusional about their muscle mass, their body fat levels, and what drugs can do, and just expect them to do all the work.
So yeah if they think they can go on a cycle and indulge themselves on all the junkfood they crave and build only muscle because they heard Ronnie Coleman was eating pizza everyday or whatever, they will do it.
It’s the same for naturals that go on a bulk, trust me I’ve been there. “Oh I’m bulking, it’s okay if I eat this pizza”. Then it’s one everyday and you end up having to lose 30 kgs like I did.
People will mess you, they want to drag you to “their level” usually because they feel bad about themselves.
I’m really lean right now and I have the same thoughts: “why shouldn’t I eat this pizza? After all I’m lean, everyone tells me I look great etc”
Just had the example the other with my sister who knows I’m dieting down for photoshoots, and was pestering me to eat her damn apple crumble.
Then you have people than need junk food like @hankthetank89 . There are good articles in here by Dave Tate and he was talking about his bulks, and that eating over 5000 cals of clean food was impossible so he’d eat candy out of the bag.
Honestly if you’re active, have decent muscle mass and even more on gear, I can see people having to ressort to this for gaining mass indeed
I think this is good advice. I like what Israetel said about this foir the same reasons. Honestly if some day I’m taking gear, I’m sure as hell putting all the chances on my side to make sure I gain the most of it. Because you can only do a limited amount of cycles before something starts happening. So yeah I’d certainly do it in a certain surplus. Also why I don’t get cutting cycles…
Was completely natty, if I did this with 10x the amount of test in my system, I’d be seriously disappointed haha
Since losing muscle on a diet never happened to me, I think it was worth it, because I’m now 3-4 kg of muscle heavier which looks completely different. We’ll see if I can achieve the same without gaining 14 kg.
You raise some good points @hankthetank89 . In college when I was a trainer I would break diets down to math equations, which is exactly what macro tracking is right? Calories in, calories out. To build muscle you need a surplus, to loose you need a deficit. There are other factors such as timing, etc yes but for laymen it’s pretty clear. I also agree that if I’m bulking, and adding some fat thats a good indication I’m eating in a surplus. I don’t want to waste a cycle. I have eaten cleaner on this mini blast I’m doing but I’m not seeing nearly the same results in strength and size as when my calories were much higher, but everyone is different.
Thanks everyone for the lesson’s advice and good discussion on this topic.
I spent most of last Fall and Winter doing two back to back cycles mostly because I was bored out of my mind with the government lockdown and for 2 months my gym was closed.
I also wanted to try 2 new AAS’s I could now buy.
First cycle was 400/w T E with 100 then 200 Masteron.
Second cycle was 400/w T E with Anavar.
In both cases the AAS made me stronger and recovery was half the time. I was able to break thru some weight levels however do to over eating. My usual bodybuilding meals (40P/30C/30F=2400cal) I added lots of night time junk food (beer pizza tacos etc) calories unknown while binge-watching Netflix with the wifey I was just getting fat. Went from 194 to 212. 34" waist to 38"
I did put a full inch on my neck and 1 1/2 on my bi/tri and 1 inch on my forearms. pulling the tape tight to compress the fat across my chest at tit level I gained 3" this would encompass my lats and pecs.
But my bigass beer belly was I saw in the mirror and this was not the worst of it.
With all that body fat my E2 soared, fasting blood glucose ran 125, A1C went from 5.7 to 6.4
my doc diagnosed me with being pre-diabetic and insulin resistance He put me on Metformin.
To facilitate my weight loss I bought some HGH, B12 injectable, Lipo-C injectable.
if affordable, HGH is a must have on any cycle, cruise, blast, pct or TRT…
I am starting to think like some can tolerate a lot of E2 and some can not.
I can not tolerate a high surplus of calories.
After spoiling one’s self for 2 months and eating anything while cycling.
Dieting just sucks for me. Even if I build muscle slower I am never doing that again.
Here’s another question.
If one has a slight layer of body fat (stored calories) wouldn’t the body just use that if you did not eat enough that day?
Well this is how you lose weight. But a pound of fat is around 3500 calories so you understand why we need to be in a deficit for a while to have a decent impact.
You can eat junk food and still be in a caloric deficit 
I’m on a slow cut, and sometimes I feel like I have to forcefeed myself or fill in macros with junk food because my appetite isnt there. I’m not on any pharma yet tho
I can attest for until a week ago I was still on 2x McDonald’s a week + 1 pizza and some more stuff and still losing
When I blast, my appetite, which is already strong, becomes insatiable. Eating clean in a blast would be near impossible for me.
Both need calories if growth is the primary goal. Calories are the most anabolic thing on the planet. Sumo wrestlers run no AAS and never touch a barbell, but have the greatest amount of fat free mass of any athlete. Calories become “fat producing” when the number exceeds what the body needs to fuel activities and then repair and build new tissue.
Bodybuilders will care about appearance and eat just enough to produce growth, while minimizing fat gain. They’ll determine that, say, they need 4,000 to grow and eat 4,000 until growth stops and then go up to 4,500. Powerlifters and strongmen will often say fuck it and just eat everything in sight, not caring by how much they exceed their growth number.
For powerlifters specifically, it’s also worth mentioning that being fat and bloated makes a considerable difference in the power lifts, to the tune of a 10-15% increase in 1RM.
I will say that getting fat and then cutting is old school not as cool as it used to be.
But you’re right bulking and cutting sucks. Going from 4000+ calories a day to 2,500 or less will make workouts suck, mood suck, takes extreme discipline, and is not for the faint of heart. I’ve done it several times in my life and absolutely hated it every time.
I was this same way, and built like you, and ate whatever the hell I wanted, before I started TRT and then blast and cruise.
People always hated me and said “where do you put all that food?””
Once my E2 started climbing, i became like the rest of the world and excess calories=fat now.
Maybe it is my age, that insulin resistance my doctor told me about and sarcopenia nipping at my door but I can just look in the frig and lose my abs.
I am just getting tired of looking like a slob in the mirror, and at the gym for 3/4 of the years in hopes of gaining some minor additional muscle mass, I will not see it because it is covered in body blubber.
There are just not many guys my age trying to look good most of the time.
I’m going to have to blaze my own trail and bulk and cuts are no longer an option for me.
Once my abs are back I will start my next late Spring cycle. I plan 500 TE and 20 anavar.
I plan mini blood test and hold my E2 just under 100. With an SHGB of 15 500TE will send my E2 into the 190’s
I will hold my meals to 2500cal 45P/25C/30F. If my abs stay visible I will up the meals to 2800, them 3000 and just see how that goes. @67 there are no contests to prep for just my ego.
No… Your body wants to be fat more than it wants muscle. Muscle is unnatural for homo sapiens, thats why we survived when neanderthals didnt. For us its easy to survive ice age, etc, because we eat less and store fat easy.
Most people will lose muscle first, only then fat. If you blast HGH and Tren, you might hope that what you said would happen, but that also depends on how big you already are. If you are beginner and skinny fat - yes, recomp is realistic. If you have years under your belt, probably not so much anymore.
