Is 90x9 a Lousy Straight Barbell Curl Weight?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think if you’re a noob (or have the mentality and intellect of a noob), which you might be considering the nature of your post, you might want to spend some time gettign soem relative strength up in the bench, overhead press, chinup, bent row, dips, squats, and deadlifts, and just let the numbers in the smaller lifts fall wherre they may and not go nuts over them. [/quote]

lol? think I learned that useless advice on my first few days lifting.

can’t provide a relevant answer? and how does asking about a bicep curl weight suggest I am a newbie?

by the way you are only 10 lbs more than me, why act all high horse when you are small, is this a joke?
[/quote]

Is this post for real? The advice was solid. It suggests you’re a newbie because most advanced lifters don’t care about how much weight they can curl, they care about stimulating the biceps muscle and making it grow. If you get progressively stronger on your curls while keeping good form and MMC your biceps will most likely grow (as long as your nutrition is good) so don’t worry about the actual numbers unless you plan on doing a curl competition.

22

I tend to think of myself as one of the more experienced folks on here, and what Brick said was pretty much what I would have suggested myself. He’s one of the few posters that I may occasionally take advice from, but only occasionally though -lol.

I could probably curl a ton of weight if it’s all that I cared about. Of course that’s not the case, as my primary reason for being in the gym is developing a large and well developed physique. I’ll do my barbell curls after a full back session, and after an isolation movement. Then I’ll still narrow my focus even more on making the weight ‘work’ for me, not just ‘lifting it’.

If that makes some newb in a wife beater n the other side of the gym think that the less than impressive weight I’m lifting makes me weak, or that I “only” weigh 10 lbs more than him, then so be it. I’m too busy making real physique progress to be concerned.

S

23

Ronnie Coleman has monstrous arms and used to do all types of curls until the cows came home. But in his own words, he eventually moved away from barbell curls and switched to cables. If bigger, stronger biceps is really your main focus and you’ve already aced the other lifts listed in previous posts. And he reckons cables are good for all levels of lifter.

COleman: “The exercise taught me that although barbell curls allowed me to use heavy weights, the muscular stress caused by the poundage was in no way being applied 100% to my biceps. I believe that the heavy weights employed for barbell curls encourage the user to cheat through the exercise, perhaps without even knowing it. A person tends to bend the upper torso to let the momentum of the weight take over. In addition, instead of the biceps powering out the reps, forearms and front delts are called into play too much.”

24

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]illadelphia91 wrote:
Why does it matter?[/quote]

This.

How do your biceps look? Are you happy with them? Is the form and weight you’re using allow you to hit the muscle to its optimal ability for your required rep range?[/quote]

no, they are only like 16.5 or 17 inches pumped, i need at least 23 inch arms

i’m just wondering because I never see videos of people doing high rep work with like 150 lbs or anything like that for biceps… was wondering where most bodybuilders(natty or non natty) tend to max around?
[/quote]

That is decent work at your bodyweight. IMO…you should have no problem adding another 50-80 lbs to that over time.
You will not get to 23" arms at 195 lbs.

25

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
Ronnie Coleman has monstrous arms and used to do all types of curls until the cows came home. But in his own words, he eventually moved away from barbell curls and switched to cables.
…
COleman: “The exercise taught me that although barbell curls allowed me to use heavy weights, the muscular stress caused by the poundage was in no way being applied 100% to my biceps. I believe that the heavy weights employed for barbell curls encourage the user to cheat through the exercise, perhaps without even knowing it. A person tends to bend the upper torso to let the momentum of the weight take over. In addition, instead of the biceps powering out the reps, forearms and front delts are called into play too much.”[/quote]
In “his own words”, huh? The idea, maybe, but please don’t think the exact words above were said by this guy:

Just sayin’, editors can be awesome, but they should be a little more subtle. There’s something to be said for maintaining the voice of an author during the editorial/ghost writing process. :wink:

On topic,

According to the Raw Powerlifting Federations, the US national record for the 198 pound class is a 170 pound strict curl x 1. Extrapolate that to “rep strength” however you’d like. For bodybuilding, I’d say 90x9 is only “lousy” if last week you did 90x12.

26

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Pigeonkak wrote:
Ronnie Coleman has monstrous arms and used to do all types of curls until the cows came home. But in his own words, he eventually moved away from barbell curls and switched to cables.
…
COleman: “The exercise taught me that although barbell curls allowed me to use heavy weights, the muscular stress caused by the poundage was in no way being applied 100% to my biceps. I believe that the heavy weights employed for barbell curls encourage the user to cheat through the exercise, perhaps without even knowing it. A person tends to bend the upper torso to let the momentum of the weight take over. In addition, instead of the biceps powering out the reps, forearms and front delts are called into play too much.”[/quote]
In “his own words”, huh? The idea, maybe, but please don’t think the exact words above were said by this guy:

Just sayin’, editors can be awesome, but they should be a little more subtle. There’s something to be said for maintaining the voice of an author during the editorial/ghost writing process. ;)[/quote]

Hurhur, I do see what you mean and agree. Yes, I’m sure an editor looked at his submission and was like, “wtf… edit, edit… er… edit”.

Buuuuut, it’s not the first time I have read an article “by Ronnie Coleman” advising beginners and pros alike to move away from brutal barbell curls. The one I quoted was from sometime ago, but I have read many more references to his ideas on curling more recently. I don’t know if even more recently he now advocates heavy barbell curling. I know he does barbell curls when he intends kipping or cheating the lift.

27

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I’d say 90x9 is only “lousy” if last week you did 90x12.[/quote]

lol

S

28

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think if you’re a noob (or have the mentality and intellect of a noob), which you might be considering the nature of your post, you might want to spend some time gettign soem relative strength up in the bench, overhead press, chinup, bent row, dips, squats, and deadlifts, and just let the numbers in the smaller lifts fall wherre they may and not go nuts over them. [/quote]

lol? think I learned that useless advice on my first few days lifting.

[/quote]

I doubt that. Otherwise why start this thread?

29

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Spidey: Thanks for the compliment. Trying hard here.

Qeynos: Bro, I didn’t intend to be dismissive at all, especially considering your lift isn’t shabby for strict form and you’re trying hard, which is really what matters. Most here are just average people who love this stuff and no fair people are gonna dismiss some guy asking for help and trying hard at this, regardless of where he stands on the genetics scale or level of advancement.

Many arm exercises don’t lend themselves to monstrous poundages and many of the outrageous arm lifts we here of are inflated or the person is using horrendous form. Just do what you can with then and focus on gettign the big lifts up in the beginning. Then when you get up to good poundages in them, you can more focus on the “feel” of lifts (I’m seeing this is the cycle or pattern most advanced guys come around to).

[/quote]

sorry for being insulting… just annoying to hear people suggest things like deadlifting for arms when asking about training biceps… it is done on so many threads, as the answer to every question

maybe its good advice for people who aren’t already doing those lifts

and i didn’t ask because I thought it was good or anything… I just was wondering where pro bodybuilders who are around my weight tend to be in terms of reps/weight.

as an aside… i don’t really get it either, people always say to focus on #s going up to increase size, and I do… but then you see videos of people like Kai Green curling 30 lbs? Is that really his arm routine?

30

[quote]qeynos wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Spidey: Thanks for the compliment. Trying hard here.

Qeynos: Bro, I didn’t intend to be dismissive at all, especially considering your lift isn’t shabby for strict form and you’re trying hard, which is really what matters. Most here are just average people who love this stuff and no fair people are gonna dismiss some guy asking for help and trying hard at this, regardless of where he stands on the genetics scale or level of advancement.

Many arm exercises don’t lend themselves to monstrous poundages and many of the outrageous arm lifts we here of are inflated or the person is using horrendous form. Just do what you can with then and focus on gettign the big lifts up in the beginning. Then when you get up to good poundages in them, you can more focus on the “feel” of lifts (I’m seeing this is the cycle or pattern most advanced guys come around to).

[/quote]

sorry for being insulting… just annoying to hear people suggest things like deadlifting for arms when asking about training biceps… it is done on so many threads, as the answer to every question

maybe its good advice for people who aren’t already doing those lifts

and i didn’t ask because I thought it was good or anything… I just was wondering where pro bodybuilders who are around my weight tend to be in terms of reps/weight.

as an aside… i don’t really get it either, people always say to focus on #s going up to increase size, and I do… but then you see videos of people like Kai Green curling 30 lbs? Is that really his arm routine?

[/quote]

Bro, this is bodybuilding. OF COURSE we have to train arms directly for optimal development. What I probably did wrong was assume you’re overly concerned with your arm exercise poundages when you might have just been trying to guage how you stack up in strength, which is what you say here, and that’s fine.

It might be Kai Green’s actual poundage, or he might just be taking it easy for a day, or he might just be engaging in Kai Greene-style theatrics. I don’t pay much attention to what IFBB pros that are on god knows how many and god knows what drugs do. Focus on your own stuff, because that’s what you have control over and should really be concerned about.

31

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I tend to think of myself as one of the more experienced folks on here, and what Brick said was pretty much what I would have suggested myself. He’s one of the few posters that I may occasionally take advice from, but only occasionally though -lol.

S[/quote]

Thanks! :slight_smile:

32

[quote]qeynos wrote:
and i didn’t ask because I thought it was good or anything… I just was wondering where pro bodybuilders who are around my weight tend to be in terms of reps/weight.

as an aside… i don’t really get it either, people always say to focus on #s going up to increase size, and I do… but then you see videos of people like Kai Green curling 30 lbs? Is that really his arm routine?

[/quote]

I’m not saying this to be a dick, but it sounds like you’re just not understanding bodybuilding that well at this point. The fact that you’re even trying to get professional bodybuilders’ routines and numbers for your comparison is a pretty blatant showcase of this.

It takes time, and you’ll learn a lot of hard lessons along the way… concerning both form, exercises, reps and weights used, and everything else in that realm. I have, and have plenty more “D’ohs” left in my training career I’m sure.

eBomb and zraw follow Meadows’ training advice… I know for a fact they typically don’t use over 30 lb dumbbells during their arm routines.

Honestly, refer to my original post. IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING CONDUCIVE TO “BUILDING” YOUR BODY THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO?

33

[quote]SSC wrote:

[quote]qeynos wrote:
and i didn’t ask because I thought it was good or anything… I just was wondering where pro bodybuilders who are around my weight tend to be in terms of reps/weight.

as an aside… i don’t really get it either, people always say to focus on #s going up to increase size, and I do… but then you see videos of people like Kai Green curling 30 lbs? Is that really his arm routine?

[/quote]

I’m not saying this to be a dick, but it sounds like you’re just not understanding bodybuilding that well at this point. The fact that you’re even trying to get professional bodybuilders’ routines and numbers for your comparison is a pretty blatant showcase of this.

It takes time, and you’ll learn a lot of hard lessons along the way… concerning both form, exercises, reps and weights used, and everything else in that realm. I have, and have plenty more “D’ohs” left in my training career I’m sure.

eBomb and zraw follow Meadows’ training advice… I know for a fact they typically don’t use over 30 lb dumbbells during their arm routines.

Honestly, refer to my original post. IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING CONDUCIVE TO “BUILDING” YOUR BODY THE WAY YOU WANT IT TO?[/quote]

all I asked was if 90x9 was a good lift, didn’t ask for a wall of text.

not comparing your lifts to others seems idiotic… if 2 people train the same way, have the same genetics, etc. and have the same 10RM, would their size ever be significantly different?

34

IMO…this is a legit question.
Although all the advice he is receiving is certainly valid, it’s not like he is talking about a 1RM straight bar curl in the BB forum. He is working in the 8-10 range and clearly indicates no momentum. The weight on the bar is never the only consideration; it frequently may be several rungs down the ladder, but over time (especially during the first decade) no other variable is more related to progress. Those of us that have ‘crested the hill’ may train differently now, we may even have a few re-occurring ‘aches and pains’ as a result our earlier pursuit of bigger numbers, but it’s hard to say that we would be where we are today without having ‘traveled the path’.

35

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
IMO…this is a legit question.
Although all the advice he is receiving is certainly valid, it’s not like he is talking about a 1RM straight bar curl in the BB forum. He is working in the 8-10 range and clearly indicates no momentum. The weight on the bar is never the only consideration; it frequently may be several rungs down the ladder, but over time (especially during the first decade) no other variable is more related to progress. Those of us that have ‘crested the hill’ may train differently now, we may even have a few re-occurring ‘aches and pains’ as a result our earlier pursuit of bigger numbers, but it’s hard to say that we would be where we are today without having ‘traveled the path’. [/quote]

At what point would you advise against just chasing the numbers?

36

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I tend to think of myself as one of the more experienced folks on here, and what Brick said was pretty much what I would have suggested myself. He’s one of the few posters that I may occasionally take advice from, but only occasionally though -lol.

S[/quote]

Thanks! :slight_smile: [/quote]

BTW Brick, I know it’s late but welcome back

37

I think the honest answer is, it’s an ok amount of weight, though, still plenty of room for improvement.

Curling big weights is not EVERYTHING, though, the ABILITY to curl big is still going to be part of the size building journey for most with big guns.

38

If you curl that and feel it entirely in your biceps then keep going. Eventually the weights get so heavy(for your body not everyone hits the same point) that you’re working too much forearms/delts etc or you simply can’t get a decent arm workout from it for whatever reason. I’ve seen videos of pros repping 185(probably more) but that doesn’t mean that is entirely how they train or how you should train.

Build the muscle not the movement(don’t turn these into supinated grip hang cleans). Time and experience is the only thing that will give you the answer.

Easy answer: If you have to ask…

39

Dear Overly-Concerned-Brah,

Your question lacks sense. The weight and reps are just fine if your arms grew 1" last year. It seems like a typical lift for someone your size. There are alot of variables. Are they sloppy? Pause at the top? Short rest periods? So not all 90x9 are equal. If they have not grown in a year (and your diet is dialed in) it may not be a good weight, rep scheme or exercise.

The question should be, “are my arms growing?” and if they are, they are good weight for you. Try to get 90x10 next month etc. etc.

40

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:
Dear Overly-Concerned-Brah,

Your question lacks sense. The weight and reps are just fine if your arms grew 1" last year. It seems like a typical lift for someone your size. There are alot of variables. Are they sloppy? Pause at the top? Short rest periods? So not all 90x9 are equal. If they have not grown in a year (and your diet is dialed in) it may not be a good weight, rep scheme or exercise.

The question should be, “are my arms growing?” and if they are, they are good weight for you. Try to get 90x10 next month etc. etc.[/quote]

Good post.

I do respect Blue Collar tremendously, and agree with him that in the big picture, yes, bigger numbers are going to mean bigger muscles. But it’s not always just that simple. Plus, OP admittedly irked me with his seemingly shitty attitude.

Because I have seen many a bro using more weight than 90 lbs for 9 reps on a barbell, I will say “No.” It’s not a lousy curl weight but it’s no where near impressive.

.02