T Nation

Is 12 Weeks Too Long for Low Dose Winny?

#1

Been on a cut cycle last 6 weeks… originally I planned on just an 8 week cycle but gainz are good & sides minimal so why not press it… thinking 12weeks
Running
Tren Ace .5ml eod
Test prop 1ml EOD
Winny 40mg daily
Caber, anastrozle,HCG as needed

Thinking since this is week 6 cut off the winny & save it for last 2 weeks or just drop it to 20mg for entire time. I like the energy & pump it provides while being extremely low carb. Also appetite suppression is good. Have maintained good vitamin & supplement support so no indication of liver issues. Pee seems clear no yellow eyes ECT… Keeping diet as low cholesterol as possible as I know winny is a train reck on that. So far so good but is this not a safe plan?

#2

I say get blood work. If your liver values are still ok then you could maybe justify running it lower for longer. But without some data you’re flying a little blind. I’m much more liberal when it comes to orals, and even I have reservations about this idea. I know that you’re a bit more hardcore than many of the guys here, and you’ve been doing this long enough to know what you’re doing. But put your health first on this one and get some blood work done before proceeding. That’s my harm reduction speech. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

#3

I would love to but… For me I have Obama care and doing labs is super pricey…Generally I only do it 1 or 2x a yr for TRT doc. What Im able to do tho is give blood every 2 months and usually the red cross lady tells me how bad my cholesterol, iron, or hemocrit is and I adjust. But if you know a way I can do labs without getting hammerd at the bank Im all ears.

#4

Discountlabs

Its pricey if your trying to run a full hormones along with liver, cbc etc

The great part is you can choose the test. It shouldn’t be more then $50 for just liver values maybe less

1 Like
#5

Gotcha then just do the blood test at cheap lab or whatever is on my network?

#6

Na you order them and pay online then you just take the paperwork to any lab Corp or quest diagnosis. They draw the blood and results are in your email in a couple days

1 Like
#7

Sweet thanks I’ll test my liver & cholesterol I all ready know iron & hemoglobin will be shit after cycle. Usually fish oil aspirin & red wine thin it back to normal after 2 months

#8

Ooooo get cholesterol (HDL/LDL) tested on winny!

Also how muscular/developed is you’re physique?

Secondly do you plan to use recreational drugs during cycle (if you’re frequently consuming alcoholic beverages or stimulants/ various other drugs of a cardiotoxic and/or stress inducing response) this is probably a bad idea. (Depends on what you think is a bad idea)

From what I recall you’re like 40 right?

#9

I’m super clean on cycle no booze no drugs… just Ibuprofen every know & then for pain. As of a week ago 190lbs at 13% shooting for 200 at at 10% I know it’s a stretch but I think I can get close… diet super clean & low cholesterol. No read meat just lean cuts. Chicken breast, fish, shrimp. 41 actually almost 42… I’m thinking just 10mg winny AM & PM just for the appetite suppression & gym boost to get through tuff workouts. In last 4 weeks diet is only .5 carb per lb, pro 2g per lb, fat .5 per lb…only stim is the Tren which if I’m being honest at .5 ml EOD is plenty…deff getting rush no chest pain but when the winny hits I feel it. Hind site 20 20 a var, Tren, prop cycle would be much more comfortable

1 Like
#10

Mate why do you have pain?

Why are you putting carbs so low at the last 4 wks? I recently tried a carbohydrate depletion/ glycogen replenishing routine + water cut just to see if I have the willpower required for what it takes to compete. I managed to do it, shed 15 lbs in 2 wks then put it back on within 2 days but I felt soooooooo shiiiiiiiiiiitttt!

Winny has been linked to coronary vasospasm, so be careful with winny if you get chest pain. I’d be wary of ibuprofen due to Cox 2 inhibition induced cardiotoxicity. Don’t need that on tren and winny lol.

So if I’m getting this straight for 12 weeks you’re running

20mg winny/day
50mg tren EOD (175mg/wk)
100mg test prop EOD (350mg/wk)

Sounds solid, have fun, be careful. Take pics of before and after.

Are you tall or are you a short dude such as myself. If you’re short 193 lb is fucking good man

#11

I’m not getting chest pain… every now & then light headed… blurry vision…sometimes fast heart beat…but that doesn’t feel that abnormal for low cals… except the heart beats but that’s only after 1-2 hrs of taking winny…hence I hate it
correct…50winny Ed, prop 100eod, Tren Ace 50eod…not pain sometimes a little tight but that could be the Tren who knows… cardio good but tren has me huffing sometimes… I know for the first 3 weeks 50mg of winny didn’t bother me but now at week 6 I’m only able to tolerate 40 or 30 without feeling like ass. I taper my carbs on a cut cycle & bump cardio. So every 2 weeks I drop carbs a bit & add cardio. Protien & fat are constants… I do pre & post carbs Nothing drastic but enough to force change. I’m 5’9" so not sure if that counts as short.
But yeah the Tren winny combo doesn’t feel great especially as Cal’s drop…but muscle is being added & fat is melting off. No pain no gain. The Tren gives me panic attacks here and there but other than that I have it dosed good. No libido, sleep, rage issues… test is fine no estrogen drama. HCG keeping nuts normal. Only issue is the winny just hammers me. I got 200 left I think I’m gonna tap out & trade it to a bro for sum decent H or Var

#12

H is halotestin and var is Anavar right? Or are we talking about halodrol (the PH)

Smart approach, the tapering is better then cutting all out at once, don’t want to reduce everything to the max, then reach homeostasis in which there will be nothing left to add besides more drugs

Have you gotten the winny tested? I had the same issue when I took Anavar once (only when I went up to 25mg/day) regarding the light headedness and fast HR

Have you used winny before without serious adverse reactions?

#13

Haha I meant hgh I ain’t messing with that yet…I think Trens enough 4 me. Yea last year I ran same cycle for 8 weeks had good results but diet wasn’t as dialed in. I didn’t like the winny then either but on lower Cal’s it feels worse…never thought about testing it…how ? Why? Var I’ve ran at 80mg for 10-12 weeks not 1 side except cramps.
I’m coming back from 2 real badly herniated discs so I lost mass, strength, & got sum flab. Such is life… I started at 187 @ 17% so being 190s at 13% I’m happy but I know with the Tren if I can push it in the gym and keep protien at 2g per lb I can hit 200 in 6 weeks…i just can’t puss out or derail my gainz by eating shit. On cycle I’m a Nazi I don’t wanna go out…just eat lift sleep cardio

#14

Toooooooo be fair, this sounds like paradise to me. Unfortunately things get in the way, school, work, chronic pain etc. Next year after I graduate im thinking of going on holiday for a month or two and then dedicating the rest of the year to bodybuilding. Want to try out competing, must step on stage at least once, always been a dream of mine

Various testing kits exist, some specifically for one drug (say winny or var)/whatever and others test a single drug for numerous substances. I hypothesized my Anavar may have been (though this doesn’t seem particularly likely) spiked with stims and/or beta 2 agonists/cutting drugs as the sources of which I obtained my anabolics from also sold a variety of recreational drugs (suppliers who deal in AAS here typically also deal in hard drugs).

I’ve never purchased hard drugs nor do I ever intend to use them however the thought did cross my mind “if they’re selling these drugs, and people tend to come for Anavar uninformed and uneducated thinking it’s a fat loss drug, maybe they’d spike the drug with stimulants”. Also 25mg shot my normally hypotensive BP waaaaayyyy up

How’d you manage for this to happen? Old age (haaaaaaaaa just kidding). I assume some kind of work related injury and/or gym

Tim tams… Nandos… Baclava… Bisli… Mmmmmmmmm rice pudding… Donuts, MALVA PUDDING

If winny is the culprit of you’re issues, perhaps you’re sensitive to having a high blood concentration of the drug, split the doses up like 5mg 4x/day the HL is about 9hrs so 4x/day should keep blood levels very stable

Finally, just my opinion but I’d rather use halotestin than tren. As a matter of fact I’d never use tren and I’ve vowed to never use it at any time during my lifespan, but halotestin is easily on the cards. It’s still approved for use as TRT in the US (although is far from ideal) theoretically it could be used as a substitute for androgen replacement in the short term.

Anavar was the shit though, it made me look like a rock and melted fat away for me (when I took it that is)… If it was anavar, also I was eating super clean in a slight deficit at the time.

#15

The discs were herniated from long time gym and work issues. I had to take 6 months off do PT, chiro. and a shit ton of HGH and bpc 157… After I healed I waited 90days of decent lifting before I started cycle. Its deff the winny causing the shit feeling but at this point I can probably scrap it & bump up my Tren and test a bit…I will say if you can dial in your diet the Trens nutrient partitioning is amazing. Even on a deficit … but 100 agree var is tops when I used it it gave me more vienyness then winny & muscles looked carved from stone. only upside to winny was price and it does kick in at gym for tuff wo maybe appetite but var does that too

#16

I think I mentioned on one of your previous post to give masteron a try next time.

Winny is great but the bottom line it is harsh. Even for someone like me who handles it well its still a hard drug on your body. Masteron just seems 100% superior to winstrol IMO. You get all the benefits of lowered shbg, increase free testosterone, muscle hardening, lasting pumps, without the toxicity winstrol brings. Il probably never use winstrol again after experiencing masteron.

The one thing i see winstrol beating masteron in is lean muscle gains. But I think using winstrol for lean gains is kinda silly. There is much better compounds for that (anavar, tbol, eq, and many more) that won’t slaughter your liver as quick

#17

I agree… TBH Ive used Var for years but bought the winny at a bargain basement price a yr ago…Just like whores with roids you get what you pay for…#neveragain

2 Likes