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Irvingia - The Magic Supplement?


#1

Reading the Life Extension in my doctors office I stumbled upon what LE seems to think is the magic supp to weight loss. I did not notice a discussion thread on this yet so I'd figured I'd start one (Here hoping it'll be as big as brain function booster thread:P ) Apparently from what I can dig up it is a seed oil that inhibits lipogenisis from occuring...Lets roundtable.

Weight Management: Reversing Leptin Resistance
Fat cells produce C-reactive protein, a pro-inflammatory compound that leads to ?leptin resistance.? Overweight people given Irvingia have lower levels of CRP, and therefore less CRP is able to block the activity of leptin. Leptin is important in weight management because it promotes the breakdown of fat in adipocytes and tells the brain to turn off chronic hunger messages.

Hormones: Increasing Adiponectin
Large fat cells secrete less adiponectin, and adiponectin is a crucial hormone that helps support insulin sensitivity as well as cardiovascular health. Overweight people given Irvingia show markedly increased adiponectin levels.

Body Fat: Inhibiting the Fat Converting Enzyme
An enzyme called glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase facilitates the conversion of glucose into triglycerides that increase adipocyte size. Irvingia inhibits glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, thus reducing the amount of glucose (sugar) that is converted to fat in the body.

Diet: Reducing Carbohydrate Absorption
In order for carbohydrates to be fully absorbed, they must be broken down in the digestive tract by the amylase enzyme. Irvingia inhibits amylase, and thus reduces the amount of ingested starches that will be absorbed as sugar.

Several studies demonstrate the weight loss properties of Irvingia.1 In the largest placebo controlled human study, those taking Irvingia lost 28 pounds over a 10-week period compared to only up to 3 pounds in the placebo group.2 The study participants did not alter their diet.*


#2

additional info:

Weight Management: Reversing Leptin Resistance
Fat cells produce C-reactive protein, a pro-inflammatory compound that leads to ?leptin resistance.? Overweight people given Irvingia have lower levels of CRP, and therefore less CRP is able to block the activity of leptin. Leptin is important in weight management because it promotes the breakdown of fat in adipocytes and tells the brain to turn off chronic hunger messages.

Hormones: Increasing Adiponectin
Large fat cells secrete less adiponectin, and adiponectin is a crucial hormone that helps support insulin sensitivity as well as cardiovascular health. Overweight people given Irvingia show markedly increased adiponectin levels.

Body Fat: Inhibiting the Fat Converting Enzyme
An enzyme called glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase facilitates the conversion of glucose into triglycerides that increase adipocyte size. Irvingia inhibits glycerol-3-phosphate dehydrogenase, thus reducing the amount of glucose (sugar) that is converted to fat in the body.

Diet: Reducing Carbohydrate Absorption
In order for carbohydrates to be fully absorbed, they must be broken down in the digestive tract by the amylase enzyme. Irvingia inhibits amylase, and thus reduces the amount of ingested starches that will be absorbed as sugar.

Several studies demonstrate the weight loss properties of Irvingia.1 In the largest placebo controlled human study, those taking Irvingia lost 28 pounds over a 10-week period compared to only up to 3 pounds in the placebo group.2 The study participants did not alter their diet.*


#3

I don’t know about you, but I sure as hell don’t want to limit my body’s ability to break down starch.

This looks like yet another drug for fat, lazy people.

Here’s a hint, if you don’t want the carbs, or fat, from certain foods, don’t eat them.


#4

Well from my understanding it inhibits glucose from becoming stored energy. Most of us whom are strict at this eat every 3 hours and usually don’t want the fat. It eliminates fat as stored energy…but keeps energy available to the body just like any other daily calorie consumption would. Eat more with less fat…wouldnt the energy be used for muscular gain then?


#5

I read through the entire article in the magazine and must say I’m interested. The facts they have down seem straight and claim some pretty good results. My dad orders quite a bit of stuff from here on all those more obscure supplements and we talked about it.

I’m gonna give it a try sometime in about a month or so, I’ve leveled off my bulk and am maintaining for awhile right now. I’ll report back anything I know for sure then.

It’s gonna be hard to compete with HOT-ROX though, that stuff is the shit.

Which brings to be another question, I assume I can’t take this and HOT-ROX and the same time but can Bill or anyone confirm my theory?


#6

Also, I’m hoping it is not one of those things that just makes you poop liquid. If anyone can give me the heads up on that as well so I can avoid the mess. (literally)


#7

A) Nothing about the mechanisms sounds incompatible with HOT-ROX.

B) If the science discussed in the article is good science, then this would seem to have a lot of potential.

C) The main claimed study, the one with the amazing fat loss results and cited as being (5), leaves room for doubt.

First, not only isn’t it published in a peer-reviewed journal, it’s not even published at all. It is mentioned only as being “submitted.”

ANYONE can submit ANYTHING.

Second, the study was done in Cameroon. Now there may be fine science coming out of Cameroon, but one thing that one discovers with time is that science coming out of different countries averages quite different in quality. I don’t have any information on the quality of science coming out of Cameroon.

Beyond this, the diet, lifestyle, etc of the subjects may be quite different than for the great majority of T-mag readers.

Third, the study is in reference to those with metabolic syndrome, and therefore may not apply to average people in general.

Fourth, the claimed results are in themselves sufficient cause for suspicion. If there truly were no differences between the placebo group and the treatment group, with the placebo experiencing no change: 28 lb in 10 weeks for the treatment group?

The article is not kidding that that is the most extreme result in history.

The more likely explanation may be a defective study, rather than results being the greatest – from simply introducing a supplement and with no other change – ever seen by mankind.

Could be. Not saying it didn’t happen and the study might not have been perfectly done and truly indicative of what happens with Cameroonians with metabolic syndrome, but also that we should be open to the possibility that the claim may be whacked.

D) [quote] T3hlulzkiller wrote:
Well from my understanding it inhibits glucose from becoming stored energy. Most of us whom are strict at this eat every 3 hours and usually don’t want the fat.

It eliminates fat as stored energy…but keeps energy available to the body just like any other daily calorie consumption would. Eat more with less fat…wouldnt the energy be used for muscular gain then?[/quote]

That is working on the theory that the assumptions are correct. But when an assumption isn’t correct, then the logical conclusion from those assumptions may not be.

Essentially if I understand your reasoning and expand on it a little, you are saying:

  1. Macronutrients consumed must go somewhere. They are not excreted unchanged in the urine, they are not eliminated in the feces, they aren’t lost in sweat (except in quite small amounts), very little is lost to shed skin, etc. So they must have some fate other than that.

Agreed.

  1. Macronutrients can be metabolically consumed (burned) in which case their mass ie eliminated from the body as CO2, water, and urea. If this does not happen, then because of point 1, they must be stored in the body. The ordinary methods are as increased fat stores or increased glycogen stores.

Agreed.

  1. The amount that glycogen stores can be increased is relatively small and cannot account for an ongoing caloric surplus.

Agreed.

  1. This product prevents storage as fat.

Assumption

  1. So because of all the above points, therefore we have to think of SOME way for the macronutrients to be stored. The only one remaining would appear to be rapid muscle growth, such that for example a 500 calorie energy surplus per day, since it can’t go to fat, must go to create an amount of muscle requiring this amount of materials.

Quite logical if the assumption is correct.

However I do believe if you try this product you will not experience this amazing apparently logical outcome.


#8

my ather and I are giving it a shot, ordered two months worth today for both of us to try it out on a controlled diet. It was published in Life Extension, with quite a large study and a two page list of sources.

I would scan the article but I think it would be copyright infringement, not sure exaclty though. The study was based on healthy individuals grouped @ 213-215lbs. the group using placebo lost 3 pounds without changing normal life, the group using irvingia lost 28pounds average without changing average lifestyle.


#9

It looks like you either did not read my post or did not read the LEF article?

Or somehow misconstrued the LEF article to be saying that they did the study themselves?


#10

[quote]T3hlulzkiller wrote:
my ather and I are giving it a shot, ordered two months worth today for both of us to try it out on a controlled diet. It was published in Life Extension, with quite a large study and a two page list of sources.

I would scan the article but I think it would be copyright infringement, not sure exaclty though. The study was based on healthy individuals grouped @ 213-215lbs. the group using placebo lost 3 pounds without changing normal life, the group using irvingia lost 28pounds average without changing average lifestyle.[/quote]

what are you like 15? and what do you need a supplement like this for? lol

Hate to be one of those people saying that, but come on.


#11

Also:

Don’t you have a little problem believing that with no change in diet and no change in lifestyle, 28 lb will be lost in 10 weeks, or 2.8 lb per week?

Not even thyroid hormone at a reasonable and safe dose will, in a person normal in that regard, do that for fat loss.

Not even anabolic steroids will do that.

Not even clenbuterol will do that.

Not even GH or IGF-1 will do that.

DNP could, but…

If it was fat – and if it was lean mass then how is it such a great thing? – that represents 9800 calories a week, or 1400 calories a day.

Don’t you have a little problem believing that their metabolic rates increased 1400 cal/day?

Or if it wasn’t burned, then where the heck did it go? Sweated out? No… Protein, fats, and/or carbs coming out the urine? No… Protein, fats, and carbs that had been absorbed into the body, being excreted out the bile into the feces? No…

It would have to have been burned. Nothing else is possible. But such an increase in metabolic rate is not too believable.

I’ve got just a little bit of suspicion that this submitted, but unpublished, article based on a study in Cameroon is just not the most accurate.

When a study says monkeys were observed flying out the patients asses, the reader has to decide whether it is more likely that such a thing happened, or more likely that the study is wrong.

The claim seems not a whole lot more likely than the above example.


#12

Either that, or of course that they cut their food intake that drastically. But if that was it, then it’s a lot less interesting.

And they did say no change in diet, whereas that would be an extremely major change in dietary intake.


#13

I read the magazine. The article was the only one in the special issue with the end of year sales.

LE may be more scientific than most on supplements but this seems like a marketing hype with a planned release to capitalize on the quick buck for fat loss this time of year.

Consider it an expensive form of fiber, until more studies prove it really does more.

The soluble fibre of the seed of Irvingia gabonensis like other forms of water-soluble dietary fibres, are “bulk-forming” laxatives. Irvingia gabonensis seeds delay stomach emptying, leading to a more gradual absorption of dietary sugar. This effect can reduce the elevation of blood sugar levels that is typical after a meal [4]. Controlled studies have found that after-meal blood sugar levels are lower in people with diabetes given glucomannan in their food [5] and overall diabetic control is improved with soluble fibre-enriched diets according to preliminary [6] and controlled [7,8] trials. One double-blind study reported that glucomannan (8?13 grams per day) stabilized blood sugar levels in people with the insulin resistance syndrome [9]. Like other soluble fibers, Irvingia gabonensis seed fibre can bind to bile acids in the gut and carry them out of the body in the faeces, which requires the body to convert more cholesterol into bile acids [10]. This can result in the lowering of blood cholesterol as well as other blood lipids. Controlled double-blind [11,12] studies have shown that supplementation with several grams per day of soluble fibre significantly reduced total blood cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides and in some cases raised HDL cholesterol, these being comparable with effects noticed with Irvingia gabonensis.

Considering the wide use of Irvingia gabonensis in the preparation of various dishes in Cameroon, its use should be further encouraged for the purposes of control of dietary lipids as well as for weight reduction.


#14

That makes a lot of sense, though doesn’t account for the 28-lb-in-10-weeks-with-no-change-in-diet-or-exercise, which I still find more likely to be flawed, or severely flawed, than correct.

Generally speaking, the herbal remedies for diabetes seem to me to fall into three mechanisms of action, sometimes with a single herb providing more than one mechanism:

  1. As you mention, providing fiber. Boring. A useful general category of thing to do, but it’s nothing special about any given herb. Unless it is cheap, there are cheaper and probably more convenient ways to do the exact same thing.

  2. Increasing insulin release.

From the standpoint of Type II diabetes personally I see this as at least somewhat six-of-one-half-a-dozen-of-the-other.

The person’s problem was caused by long term, probably lifetime, abuse (so to speak) of the pancreas and/or of the insulin receptors from demanding high insulin release on a frequent basis due to excessive carbohydrate and particularly sugar consumption.

Thus either resulting in decreased ability of the pancreas to produce insulin (worn-out, to use the scientific term) or blunting insulin sensitivity, or both.

Jacking up insulin release could be said to be not solving the underlying problem in any way, shape, or form: if anything perhaps to be accelerating the further development of it. In terms of an acute test, sure things look better, but long-term I am not so sure.

From the bb’ing perspective, this mechanism is interesting and possibly useful for some.

  1. Improving insulin sensitivity.

For the diabetic, any type of improvement is useful. By any type, I mean that insulin sensitivity of fat cells and of muscle cells do not necessarily go together – a given compound does not necessarily affect both equally.

While the bodybuilder does not want something that increases insulin sensitivity of fat cells moreso than muscle cells, for the diabetic if it still results in avoiding damagingly-high blood sugar it’s a good thing.

As for this herb, if the claims are correct that it interferes with glucose being stored as fat – which is what fat cells have to do after taking in glucose – then clearly mechanism 3 is not in place at least with regard to fat cells. With regard to muscle cells, I don’t think this could account for such dramatic fat loss. Some, yes.

Mechanism 1 seems the most likely cause of any substantial fat or total weight loss in this case.

The claim of “no change in diet” may be poorly stated and the truth may instead be, no instructions were given to eat differently but due to the fiber content or who knows, maybe unreported appetite suppression from other causes, caloric intake in fact went way down.

Not so much as to cause a 28 lb weight loss that was principally fat in 10 weeks, but enough for substantial weight loss of whatever sort, and then weirdness of some sort resulted in a distortion of the average figure to this rather unbelievable amount (unbelievable for no change in, let’s say, instructed diet and exercise.)

Maybe there were only quite few subjects and one had an illness along the way causing severe loss of lean mass, and one or two had severe water bloating which they lost, and one or two knew perfectly well that they were getting the herb, being familiar with having taken it before being part of their culture, and out of national pride wanted to show dramatic results and so worked hard to lose a lot of weight.

Or something.

But overall the claim is kind of like that of the acquaintance who told me recently that in his helicopter airlift to the hospital (he had suffered severe burns) the helicopter flew at 800 mph according to the pilot.

There comes a time to question what is claimed.


#15

I’ll have a bottle of the more expensive stuff (which in itself seemed odd) in about a week or so and we’ll report what I experience.

I don’t expect to lose 28 pounds in 10 weeks with doing nothing but per Bills advice I will take it with HOT-ROX and see if there is any improvement on the 2-3 lbs a week I normally lose.


#16

I’ve taken 3 pills in total so far and it is obvious how this works.

After starting to take the pills yesterday, I never wanted to eat. I just wasn’t hungry or felt like the need to eat by being weak. I’m cutting currently and I had 1000 calories or so in my first two meals, took the first pill and had to force down a protein shake. Was busy for the next 6-7 hours doing stuff for finals and didn’t even realize I didn’t eat. I ate right away with another pill. Your supposed to take 1 15 minutes behind a meal twice a day.

I just took my first one this morning and don’t want to eat anymore. I can see why the people lost 28 pounds in 10 weeks without changing a thing. If you didn’t realize what you needed, you could EASILY go the entire day without eating a thing I truly believe.

Obviously haven’t had enough time to evaluate the other statements since I’ve been on them 1 1/2 days but this is the first week of cutting and I should lose 5-6 pounds this weeks, 2-4 next week, then 1.5-2.5 from then on out with HITT, proper eating, etc. If the figures go above this, I’ll know it’s from the supplement, but I’m not sure that it is really healthly/possible to go above.

Cliff Notes: You don’t want to eat when taking this stuff.


#17

I just ordered this product. My wife and I will try it for two months. We will report back the results and our experience. I have high cholesterol, and take Lipitor for it. If it has the same effect on my blood lipid profile as reported in the article, I may be able to reduce the dosage I am now taking.

We re not obese, but losing some weight will not hurt us either. I have used other products from LEF, and I am quite satisfied with them. Nothing as controversial as this one though. Higgins, please keep posting your experience. It is one thing for people to post opinions about a product, but quite another to read of someones aqctual experience with the product. Our product is out for delivery, so we will probably get it Monday after work.


#18

Well this product does make me, how do I say this, excrete liquid fecal matter from my anus. It isn’t as bad as other ones though with uncontrollable bowel movements from what I’ve heard. Just when I have to shit, its liquid.

I still never want to eat, which I guess for some people would be what they need, I personally stick to a strict diet schedule while cutting.

I’ll probably update this post every week or so with weight loss.


#19

It would be interesting to know if an intermediate dose gives a modest but useful decrease in appetite without giving the diarrhea problems.

I’m glad you posted your report. Your explanation makes far more sense than the attempted explanations in the LEF article, and supports that the cited unpublished article is inaccurate in saying “no change in diet” and probably should have said, “no instructed change in diet.”

[b]EDIT: It appears that with the LEF product, to try intermediate dosing would require recapsuling or equivalent method, as the dosage now is only 1 capsule at a time. So for some that might want to try a lower dosing, that would be somewhat of a barrier.

An equivalent method would likely be to add a capsule to say 4 ounces or other measured amount of water, shake, and rapidly pour off half the water into another container. Each container would then contain half a dose, approximately, most likely. The exception is that if much of the material tends to rapidly drop to the bottom then in this case that would not work.[/b]


#20

Yeah, it would be impossible to bulk on this stuff, I have to force down 2500 calories on a cut with a lot of peanut butter. I feel like I had gastric bypass or something and I just can’t eat as much.