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Ironman Triathlete in Training - Help

Hi guys… I’d appreciate some expert advice here…

I’m 6’ 165lb amateur triathlete. I’ve been training since last November for a 140.6 mile Ironman (2.4 mi swim, 112 mi bike, 26.2 mi marathon) and I’m finding that my endurance and speed is just not improving any longer and very easily fall into an over trained state. In fact I’m getting slower at the same heartrate. I fear I may bit off more than I can chew so to speak. I don’t have a lick of athletic ability (really - I mean none) but I have a ton of desire and focus to finish this race.

About 5 years ago I did AAS but strictly for aesthetics and was very happy with the results. Now as I’m struggling to take on Ironman and I’ve been researching a cycle that may help me reach the finish line. I need a cycle that will assist with recovery and increase red blood count. Here’s what I’ve come up with:

1cc Sustanon 250 / week
300mg EQ / week

My thoughts were that the Sus250 would assist with recovery and put some muscle on my chicken legs and the EQ would help with strength and also raise red blood count which should really help with endurance. I’ve also looked into EPO but thought that stacking EPO as well would be too dangerous as it’s fairly risky all by itself.

It will be a long cycle of almost 5 months as my race is the end of August. I will obviously cycle off with standard dosages of HCG, Clomid and Nolvadex.

If anyone could offer any input or further general guidance it would be most appreciated. I was also thinking about adding Anavar to the stack.

Thanks in advance.

sust once a week is no good. 5 months on is too long, and HCG cannot be used for PCT EVER! you need to do a little more research well okay a lot more to be blunt.

Yea your cycle’s a bit fucked man. I guess you could go 20 weeks, as long as you know you may never come back to 100%. But bump the test to 500mg/week, keep the EQ the same and use the HCG while on cycle. After the cycle start nolvadex only (no clomid) for a month or so. at 20-40 mgs a day.

Back in the day I did a full Ironman and many half-Ironman length triathlons as well as many marathons and ultramarathons, so I have some idea of what you’re going through

If you’re overtrained this far out, you’ve got problems. Your probably working WAY too hard. Even for someone with mediocre athletic abilities (like me) an Ironman isn’t all that hard if your only goal is to complete it before the cutoff - but the other side of the coin is that if you are someone with mediocre athletic abilities (like me), there’s only so much you’re going to be able to do, and AAS are not going to make you a superman. (Not to mention that AAS will not protect you from stress fractures, which I easily foresee in your case, or from the mental stress of training 20+ hrs a wk)

A regimented Ironman training program is difficult enough without having to try and figure out if the effects you are experiencing are from the training OR from your cycle…OR a little of each.

For example…if you get real bad joint pain…is it from your estrogen levels being all fucked up or is it due to the 18 mile run you did three days earlier? …or what about not being able to do ‘tempo runs’ due to your BP being too high from the thicker blood from higher RBC? You can get yourself into a situation where you realized you’ve fucked up and stop immediately, and then due to the nature of steroid half-lives still have bad sides for several weeks until your body returns to normal.

These are things you would probably work out in the long run, but you will pretty much have to figure them out on your own as most of the guys on the AAS forums are into strength/power sports and have NO idea of what you’re doing. By the time you work it out, you may have missed weeks (or more) of training, and be in worse shape than when you started.

If you still want to try some enhancement, I would tend to think that a very low dose, maybe 250mg Test-E per week, would be very well tolerated by most guys and will provide you with SOME increased RBC and protection against muscle wasting. (Whether or not you will need AI or other ancillaries at that dose is dependant on your personal body chem)

Good luck!

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post! I was very hesitant since I’m new to your forum and it was my first post. Yeah, I’m finding it rather difficult to find adequate information regarding endurance sports and AAS. Most info seems geared toward building mass and/or cutting.

I pulled out my old copy of Anabolics 2000 by Llewellyn but I think it’s probably pretty dated info. It doesn’t list some of the stronger 200mg EQ thats on the market now so it makes me wonder what other info I may be missing. I just ordered Anabolics 2007 today.

I know it’s not recommended to be on a cycle for 5 months but I figured since I wouldn’t be taking any c17 alpha alkylated orals or mega doses of anything easily aromatized I might be ok. I was also thinking about using milder anabolics maybe a Deca/EQ combo given the desired 5 month cycle.

I’ve done my share of triathlons and will be having two friends at the Ironman.

I would appreciate it if you gave the same devotion and sportsmanship to it as they have.

Do it naturally, or accept the fact you’re not good enough. Enough said.

[quote]Contrl wrote:
I’ve done my share of triathlons and will be having two friends at the Ironman.

I would appreciate it if you gave the same devotion and sportsmanship to it as they have.

Do it naturally, or accept the fact you’re not good enough. Enough said.[/quote]

        Well put here.

I hope you read and pay attention to these last two posts. I wouldn’t want to chance having an artery blockage or other complication in the vessels and circulation from your RBC increase for 5 months straight man! Jesus, that’s a bit much to risk for an admitted non-athlete to be taking isn’t it?

   I have a good buddy from high school who is fairly well known and pre qualified for the ironman recently, and he's all natural like Contrl indicated one should be. Those guys in the top tier are incredible individuals with insane development when it comes to stamina and all the necessary tools for the job. Be happy with what you can do safely.

                 ToneBone

Do AAS if you want, you won’t finish the damn race. Whats the goal of this people from all different path are coming to IM races and you… are doing AAS to complete. Why? Because you are no longer making progess, is that what you call desire?

When a minor difficulty show up, AAS is the solution? AAS worth the 600$ enter price?

Is that all you worth,

Kill yourself and don’t do IM.
When you will realise that you can’t event with AAS, I guess it will be the biggest hit you will ever take.

IronMan takes about 2years to prepare.

[quote]GuiYoM wrote:
Do AAS if you want, you won’t finish the damn race. Whats the goal of this people from all different path are coming to IM races and you… are doing AAS to complete. Why? Because you are no longer making progess, is that what you call desire?

When a minor difficulty show up, AAS is the solution? AAS worth the 600$ enter price?

Is that all you worth,

Kill yourself and don’t do IM.
When you will realise that you can’t event with AAS, I guess it will be the biggest hit you will ever take.

IronMan takes about 2years to prepare.[/quote]

WTF is your problem dude? Kill yourself? You’re an idiot.

I don’t agree with Contrl either, but for fuck’s sake at least he can be a civil human.

All the OP is saying is that he wants to complete the race, and that his training is not going so well. Besides the fact that he is not saying that he is trying to win the race, I dont see how bodybuilders and powerlifters can come here and say that it is wrong to use AAS in sports - as that is exactly what the sport is based upon. Cycling, for example (the, by far, largest part of the Ironman) has the longest and craziest history of doping of any sports and for the longest time from amphetamines, to EPO, to AAS, to aspirin, to blood doping.

And you guys sit here and tell someone who is simply trying to do an Ironman, for whatever his reasons may be, to not use AAS because you once did one and you were clean…I find this whole situation far to ironic to ignore.

Although I do strongly condone good solid hard work, and recognize that it takes years and years to become good, if not only proficient, at something, i respect your decision to look into AAS as an aid. As for the cycle, i have little advice although I can stay that it seems like you may be better off to do more shorter cycles (i.e. 2) than one long one.

Well needless to say I’m quite shocked at all these judgemental comments. I really thought this forum would be the last place on earth fellow athletes would play “holier than thou”.

I would venture to say the vast majority of people on this forum remember the day when they realized that in spite of the dedication to intense work outs, eating clean, living & breathing body building, renewing the subscription to Flex mag and spending all there extra money at GNC on all the latest supplements to get that edge. You eventually come to the point when you realize that you have hit wall and as much as you’d love to have another 10lbs of muscle you will be denied because your genetics simply won’t allow you any more. And that’s when you realize that AAS is the next step that will help you acheive your goal that otherwise would be unachievable. This was me about 6-7 years ago when I was into bodybuilding and I’m sure many of ou can relate.

So how is it then that now that my goal is endurance based instead of body building I’m shuned and judged by members of the juiced bodybuilding community? I don’t get it… I’m not a pro, I’m not trying to set new records, I’m not out to win money. This is simply a race against myself. I’m just an everyday guy trying acheive a personal goal just like many of you. Whether that goal is to put on another 10/20lbs of muscle and be ripped or finish an Ironman I don’t see the difference.

I have been working at this goal for almost 4 years and have finished countless triathlons at every other distance. The only distance I have not yet conquored is the Ironman. I’ve had a triathlon coach for the past 1 1/2 year. I’ve invested well over $20,000 so far. And now I’m 5 months away from the big day and I’m finding that my body is simply not absorbing any more training. So I sit here and I wonder if I’m back in that same position that I found myself in 6-7 years ago. Have I simply maxed out what genetically I’m capable of? All I know is that I’m so close to my goal and I’m hoping that AAS may just provide that extra bump to help me acheive what I otherwise would be denied. If anyone could relate to my desires I would think it would be you guys.

If you think for a second that the sport of triathlon is totally clean and there’s no doping your sadly mistaken (google Nina Kraft).

[quote]Shivers wrote:
Well needless to say I’m quite shocked at all these judgemental comments. I really thought this forum would be the last place on earth fellow athletes would play “holier than thou”.

I would venture to say the vast majority of people on this forum remember the day when they realized that in spite of the dedication to intense work outs, eating clean, living & breathing body building, renewing the subscription to Flex mag and spending all there extra money at GNC on all the latest supplements to get that edge. You eventually come to the point when you realize that you have hit wall and as much as you’d love to have another 10lbs of muscle you will be denied because your genetics simply won’t allow you any more. And that’s when you realize that AAS is the next step that will help you acheive your goal that otherwise would be unachievable. This was me about 6-7 years ago when I was into bodybuilding and I’m sure many of ou can relate.

So how is it then that now that my goal is endurance based instead of body building I’m shuned and judged by members of the juiced bodybuilding community? I don’t get it… I’m not a pro, I’m not trying to set new records, I’m not out to win money. This is simply a race against myself. I’m just an everyday guy trying acheive a personal goal just like many of you. Whether that goal is to put on another 10/20lbs of muscle and be ripped or finish an Ironman I don’t see the difference.

I have been working at this goal for almost 4 years and have finished countless triathlons at every other distance. The only distance I have not yet conquored is the Ironman. I’ve had a triathlon coach for the past 1 1/2 year. I’ve invested well over $20,000 so far. And now I’m 5 months away from the big day and I’m finding that my body is simply not absorbing any more training. So I sit here and I wonder if I’m back in that same position that I found myself in 6-7 years ago. Have I simply maxed out what genetically I’m capable of? All I know is that I’m so close to my goal and I’m hoping that AAS may just provide that extra bump to help me acheive what I otherwise would be denied. If anyone could relate to my desires I would think it would be you guys.

If you think for a second that the sport of triathlon is totally clean and there’s no doping your sadly mistaken (google Nina Kraft).
[/quote]

        My main point was just that I thought 5 months on 300/week of eq was just not all that safe. That's a long time being on a particular AAS known to really increase RBC's quite a bit. And while that is beneficial to cardiac output, it's also risky as the blood gets quite thick, at least after 5 months things could be a bit sketchy.

           Hey no disrespect here, just pointing out that particular AAS has a significant risk factor when it comes to blood viscosity. Maybe my heads up my ass, I'll leave it at that.

                  Go for it.

What does being a bodybuilder have ANYTHING to do with being an athlete?

Big, big difference. There are no illusions in bodybuilding, anyway. That’s why we have tested and untested contests.

Sorry if that doesn’t make some of you comfortable. And boo freakin hoo for your sorry genetics. Become a bodybuilder, if that’s your gripe.

[quote]Shivers wrote:
Well needless to say I’m quite shocked at all these judgemental comments. I really thought this forum would be the last place on earth fellow athletes would play “holier than thou”.[/quote]

I’m not being judgemental of you using steroids to achieve your goals - I simply think there’s a better than even chance that experimenting with AAS whilst in the middle of your training will cause you to NOT finish

While I stand by what I said, the least I can do is suggest that you look into 12,000iu of EPO and administer it around 1,000iu per day when you’re near 3 months out. It’s certainly a safer alternative than a 5 month Sustanon/EQ cycle, if you insist on running a cycle.

It does sound as if you’re over-trained. Here’s a link to an excellent article here on T-Nation that’s helped me. It’s written more towards developing strength/speed, but the chart on auto-regulating training and restoration is applicable to most athletes.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/behind_the_iron_curtain

You also might want to think about taking some time off training, and just do some active rest stuff. Play some frisbee with the kids, take the dog for a hike, stretching, that kind of thing (and eat lots of fish oil too).

Do this for a couple of weeks before you start up your training again. Then if you decide you want to use AAS, plan your cycle for the last 2 months leading up to your event, about 10 weeks out. A lower to moderate dose of testosterone enanthate would be easy and help with recovery and RBC, say 200-300mg/week.

Good luck.

Jelly

[quote]GuiYoM wrote:
Do AAS if you want, you won’t finish the damn race. Whats the goal of this people from all different path are coming to IM races and you… are doing AAS to complete. Why? Because you are no longer making progess, is that what you call desire?

When a minor difficulty show up, AAS is the solution? AAS worth the 600$ enter price?

Is that all you worth,

Kill yourself and don’t do IM.
When you will realise that you can’t event with AAS, I guess it will be the biggest hit you will ever take.

IronMan takes about 2years to prepare.[/quote]

I see so many flaming posts like this one directed at very polite and civil people asking questions. Is this how my attitude is going to wind up once I start my cycle? If it is, I’m flushing the shit down the toilet. I’d rather be a weak and puny polite guy than an big asshole on steroids.

im afraid that the aspect of maturity and character are coming in to play Vin. Some people feel as tho they are holyer than tho and carry that mentality around with them whether it be in real life or on an internet forum. I have no doubt in my mind once you start and see that the hype concerning these types of behavior while on AAS are because the persons are unstable BEFORE they start.

[quote]vin_mancini wrote:
GuiYoM wrote:
Do AAS if you want, you won’t finish the damn race. Whats the goal of this people from all different path are coming to IM races and you… are doing AAS to complete. Why? Because you are no longer making progess, is that what you call desire?

When a minor difficulty show up, AAS is the solution? AAS worth the 600$ enter price?

Is that all you worth,

Kill yourself and don’t do IM.
When you will realise that you can’t event with AAS, I guess it will be the biggest hit you will ever take.

IronMan takes about 2years to prepare.

I see so many flaming posts like this one directed at very polite and civil people asking questions. Is this how my attitude is going to wind up once I start my cycle? If it is, I’m flushing the shit down the toilet. I’d rather be a weak and puny polite guy than an big asshole on steroids.

[/quote]

How does the fact that the guy who wrote that post is puny play into the equation? :wink:

Seriously, if AAS has negative effects on your mood then stop using it. It doesn’t do that to me and many of the other posters here, so I wouldn’t worry too much.

I never said that I was puny. I said that if I had the choice between the two… I’d take the puny polite guy :o)

Sorry if this is considered hijacking, but I’ve never come across a forum with so many people flaming newcomers. Then again, I’ve never been part of an aas related forum. I honestly wish that I could reach through my computer monitor and slap some of these people.